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Have I dug my own grave?

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    Have I dug my own grave?

    I started contracting last year and had my contract checked for IR35 and it's considered outside.

    However I stupidly joined the staff gym a couple of months ago and have been using the staff canteen.
    I guess after so many years of being in a permie role I didn't think about IR35.

    I think I'm going to be able to answer my own question here. Is it too late to cancel this gym membership and stop using the canteen to avoid this causing trouble further down the line?

    I'm guessing it wouldn't go down too well in an IR35 investigation if I said - 'Well I started using the gym but then I realised I wasn't really an employee so cancelled.'

    #2
    I've been using clientcos desk, oh no!

    Comment


      #3
      You only need to prove one out of the three factors - D&C, MOO, RoS.

      If they made the gym and the canteen available to other suppliers then it wouldn't be a differentiating factor, either, but I guess they don't do that.
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        #4
        Originally posted by TheFaQQer View Post
        You only need to prove one out of the three factors - D&C, MOO, RoS.

        If they made the gym and the canteen available to other suppliers then it wouldn't be a differentiating factor, either, but I guess they don't do that.
        The gym / canteen is open to contractors as well as permies.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Angrybunny View Post
          The gym / canteen is open to contractors as well as permies.
          If they brought in Accidenture or Crapita, would they allow their employees to join the gym? If they were refurbishing part of the office, would the decorators who do that be allowed to join the gym?

          If so, then HMRC couldn't argue that this was something which indicates employment, since everyone can do it; if not then it is something only open to those that they see as employees so is very much a pointer towards disguised employment.

          How good is your defence based on the three factors of D&C, RoS and lack of MOO?
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          Work in the public sector? You can read my FAQ here
          Click here to get 15% off your first year's IPSE membership

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            #6
            Originally posted by TheFaQQer View Post
            If they brought in Accidenture or Crapita, would they allow their employees to join the gym? If they were refurbishing part of the office, would the decorators who do that be allowed to join the gym?

            If so, then HMRC couldn't argue that this was something which indicates employment, since everyone can do it; if not then it is something only open to those that they see as employees so is very much a pointer towards disguised employment.

            How good is your defence based on the three factors of D&C, RoS and lack of MOO?
            Thanks for the clarification, I'm clearly not as up to speed on this as I should be. I will find out about the gym / canteen but I do think they are open to everyone.


            D&C
            Well there is a project manager but I'm pretty much left to get on with things myself.
            I also work one day a week from home. Something which does concern me is an email I was copied on last week which stated everyone should be in the office between 9-5.30. That was sent by the department head. I'm tempted just to ignore it. So not the strongest defence in the world.

            RoS
            Well it's written in my contract but I've not used a substitute as yet. I think this would be very unlikely considering I work in a Investment Bank and the on-boarding process takes weeks.

            MOO
            I have been working on the same project since October last year and have had one renewal in that time. I would like to think this is my strongest defence. I have no plans to stay longer than 2 years.

            Comment


              #7
              You know what, after 15 years of IR35, people still haven't really got he hang of this Self Assessment lark, have they...

              It's not a case of "IR35 is a concern if you get challenged by HMRC". Either you consider yourself inside or outside by applying the three key tests to the actual terms of your engagement. Whichever you decide is how you then complete your SAR and work out your tax liability. You don't have to wait until a brown envelope appears to make that decision. Deciding you are inside and then paying yourself as though you are outside is evasion, doing it the other way round is expensive. Peripheral trivia like gym membership or having a parking space aren't really deciding factors, despite what a lot of people think.

              So the question is simply "Am I inside or outside IR35?". And the answer is not "the contract is outside"; make your own decision.
              Blog? What blog...?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by malvolio View Post
                You know what, after 15 years of IR35, people still haven't really got he hang of this Self Assessment lark, have they...

                It's not a case of "IR35 is a concern if you get challenged by HMRC". Either you consider yourself inside or outside by applying the three key tests to the actual terms of your engagement. Whichever you decide is how you then complete your SAR and work out your tax liability. You don't have to wait until a brown envelope appears to make that decision. Deciding you are inside and then paying yourself as though you are outside is evasion, doing it the other way round is expensive. Peripheral trivia like gym membership or having a parking space aren't really deciding factors, despite what a lot of people think.

                So the question is simply "Am I inside or outside IR35?". And the answer is not "the contract is outside"; make your own decision.
                I'm trying to make an informed decision and to do that I need information. Hence posting here for free advice. Next step maybe to get professional advice.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Angrybunny View Post
                  I'm trying to make an informed decision and to do that I need information. Hence posting here for free advice. Next step maybe to get professional advice.
                  That's the point. You've had professional advice, it says you're outside. Only you know if your working conditions fully match the terms of your contract, but they won't have changed because of something pathetic like you using the client's facilities. Even if they did, you've used them now so you can't reverse that.

                  Perhaps you should try reading this ?
                  Blog? What blog...?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Angrybunny View Post
                    I'm trying to make an informed decision and to do that I need information. Hence posting here for free advice. Next step maybe to get professional advice.
                    The site I've just finished on had a site canteen that military, Civil Service, suppliers and contractors all used.

                    The on site gym was open to all with it being complementary for military and Civil Service staff and a fee to suppliers and contractors.

                    Would I or do I see the use of either as an IR35 indicator? No. The site and its facilities isn't open to the public either.

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