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threaded
27th May 2005, 11:39
Ha, lets see you Evolutionists squirm you're way out of this one:

An extinct flower , Eriogonum truncatum, aka
buckwheat "rediscovered" (http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2005/05/24_buckwheat.shtml)

hattra
27th May 2005, 11:47
"When I took people out to see it, they just walked right by it,"

There you have the answer, I think - nothing to do with evolution, just myopia

sasguru
27th May 2005, 11:56
The article says "presumed extinct". It also says that the seeds can stay dormant for decades.

Nice troll, though. Chico will be along shortly - in which case abandon reason all ye who enter here ...

PS. I'm presuming it's a troll and that Threaded is not thick as a plank.

threaded
27th May 2005, 12:01
Ok, ok, how about an extinct bird "rediscovered" (http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/region.php?id=110638&region=4)?

Lucifer Box
27th May 2005, 12:01
I'm presuming it's a troll and that Threaded is not thick as a plank.
I see no basis for assuming that.

SupremeSpod
27th May 2005, 12:06
I'm presuming it's a troll and that Threaded is not thick as a plank.

FFS, another one who's fallen into the trap!

hattra
27th May 2005, 12:07
Ok, ok, how about an extinct bird "rediscovered"?


It should actually read

"extinct" bird rediscovered

because it wasn't extinct - it just hadn't been seen, by somebody who knew what they were looking at, for a while.

ChicoLondon
27th May 2005, 12:57
...... Creationists 12 Evolutionists 0


PS. Hitler was a secular humanist - his Uncle Joe said so.

Lucifer Box
27th May 2005, 13:02
PS. Hitler was a secular humanist - his Uncle Joe said so.
:D

Glad to see you have a sense of humour, Chico. Welcome back. How's it going in permie London land today? I assume you have been a busy fellow as you have been quite quiet recently.

ChicoLondon
27th May 2005, 13:03
Permiedom more like permiedooom. I have not been a permie since 2001.

Lucifer Box
27th May 2005, 13:05
I must have mistaken you for Franco. ;)

sasguru
27th May 2005, 13:11
>> ...... Creationists 12 Evolutionists 0


No No Chico you've got this fantasy, unreality lark all wrong. The trick is to have no limits (proof not required after all). So you should have said

Creationists 21512761253713 Evolutionists -42

ChicoLondon
27th May 2005, 13:23
"In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God's existence."

Sir Isaac Newton

jabberjobber
27th May 2005, 13:25
because it wasn't extinct - it just hadn't been seen, by somebody who knew what they were looking at, for a while.

How do you know that it wasn't extinct and there was a divine intervention ? In fact I have made the thing extinct 42 times in the last half hour. It is getting boring now, but on balance I think I will let it exist again.

SupremeSpod
27th May 2005, 13:26
"In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God's existence."

That was obviously before the apple knocked some sense into him!

ChicoLondon
27th May 2005, 13:36
If we find the answer to that, (why it is that we and the universe exist), it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God.
Stephen Hawking

sasguru
27th May 2005, 13:40
Never mind Chico, perhaps threaded can invent a time machine to send you back to an era in which you are more confortable.

I would recommend the Proterozoic era for you.

SupremeSpod
27th May 2005, 13:42
If we find the answer to that, (why it is that we and the universe exist), it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God.
Stephen Hawking

Yeah, and the sooner that nasty spastic gets run over the better!

jabberjobber
27th May 2005, 13:44
"I am the only God, the absolute ruler of the universe. Every other god is a fake."

JabberLord

SupremeSpod
27th May 2005, 13:52
Oh great, now we're playing "My God's bigger than your God"!

dundeegeorge
27th May 2005, 14:01
(unable to load pagetext)

hattra
27th May 2005, 15:48
I would recommend the Proterozoic era for you

Shirley you mean the Prozacozoic? :lol

ChicoLondon
27th May 2005, 18:48
Here ladies and gentlemen is the reality of the secular human mindset. Because there is no higher being and as such no higher power on morality - the secular humanist suggests all morality emanates from themselves or people exactly like them.

Spod says


Yeah, and the sooner that nasty spastic gets run over the better!

So you are ok as long as you are ... (insert as applicable) white, able bodied, share similar views on evolution etc etc.

If you do not think like them then as saguru said on his very first post ..". all religious minded are weak-minded and should be shot"

Well you are following in the foot steps other secular humanists - such as Pol Pot and Adolf Hitler.

dundeegeorge
27th May 2005, 18:54
******** fairy-stories again.
Just point out one (only one) incontravertable piece of physical evidence for your creator and you can spout as much crap as you like.
Just one.
If you can't, then p1ss off and leave the debating to grown-ups.

threaded
27th May 2005, 19:00
dundeegeorge: Your thumb.

HTH

|I

ChicoLondon
27th May 2005, 19:34
Dundee you are a Roman soldier circa 40 AD

SupremeSpod
27th May 2005, 22:00
So you are ok as long as you are ... (insert as applicable) white, able bodied, share similar views on evolution etc etc.
Sorry Chico, having spent time in Cambridge and having been nearly run-over by the nasty bastard, I think I'm perfectly entitled to make the comments I've made.

Now kindly piss off and die.

threaded
27th May 2005, 22:09
Spodly: Caught you out bullsh1tting again. He doesn't drive himself and never has.

SupremeSpod
27th May 2005, 22:12
Spodly: Caught you out bullsh1tting again. He doesn't drive himself and never has.

Threaded, just how big is his wheelchair?

Lucifer Box
27th May 2005, 22:36
Well you are following in the foot steps other secular humanists - such as Pol Pot and Adolf Hitler.
Given that the dictionary definition of a humanist is "one who is primarily concerned with the welfare of human beings", can you please provide an opinion of your own that suggests that in any way that either Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot were "primarily concerned with the welfare of human beings".

hattra
28th May 2005, 01:03
Thomas de Torquemada
Adolf Hitler
James I & VI
Matthew Hopkins
Hernando Cortes

The perpetrators of the:
Crusades
Inquisition
Reconquista
Holocaust

and , of course, nobody knows the full extent of what Spain and Portugal did in South America & the Caribbean, because there are so few survivors among the native people (the Caribs no longer exist)

ChicoLondon
28th May 2005, 12:25
Surely you are not suggesting anyone who claims to be Christian or was brought up as one is a true Christian. I would rather evaluate them on their actions as well. Ultimately God will decide if the motley crew you suggested are Christians - The Bible defines Christians as those who not only confess that Jesus Christ is Lord but also behave as Christ would have them to.

Secular humanists do not go around proclaiming that they are secular humanists and it seems you are getting hung up on the definition of a humanist. As such clarification is required.

Secular humanism or in defined contexts secularism is a philosophy of ethics that emphasizes a humanist world view based upon naturalism —a belief that the physical world is all that truly exists, and therefore is the arbiter of ethical issues. The term "secular" refers to secularity, or the separation of one element from another.

The term "secular" commonly refers to a political separation of church and state, and unlike the above definition of secular humanism, "secularism" does not imply any rejection of religion or religious-based history and values, rather it simply asserts a distiction in the application of religious values, lest they impose upon the religious freedom of others. Secularity in humanism refers to the application of a similar distinction within the context of humanist moral values —which claims to better satisfy the common humanist goals, by means of excluding religion from matters of ethics and morality.

"Secular humanism" is distinguished from the broader "humanism" in that the secular humanist prefers free inquiry over received wisdom—upholding the scientific method for inquiry, while rejecting "revealed knowledge" and theism-based morality. Secular humanism has appeal to atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, rationalists, skeptics, and materialists. Its basic tenets may be simplified as:

Humans have value and can solve human problems
Science, free speech, rational thought, democracy, and freedom in the arts go together
There is nothing supernatural . - wikipedia

As such back to my point about the origination of morality of secular humanists. It emanates from within themselves or people like them and if you do not fit into the circle woe betide you. History is very clear about what happens when theistic morality is rejected. We see it all around us, in schools, society at large. No respect for others because the individual determines their own morality - the selfishness of atheism is clear.

Lucifer Box
28th May 2005, 13:14
Okay, we'll use the definition of a humanist you've cut 'n' pasted.

Humans have value and can solve human problems.
Science, free speech, rational thought, democracy, and freedom in the arts go together. There is nothing supernatural
Doesn't sound much like a character protrait of Hitler to me.

dundeegeorge
28th May 2005, 14:14
What? What? What kind of idiot are you ?
I'm Scottish, an IT Contractor, and the last time I looked, it was about 2005.
So what do you think you are?
Are you perhaps Peter (the Rock on whom the church of Rome is built, even though he lied and denied Jesus three times before the @#%$ crew ?) (No that's not some kind of gay rap band or chippendales)
Are you a small limpet-like creature hanging on to a rock?
Are you a hugely talented and misunderstood individual who is unappreciated by the common herd around (quite a typical psychotic's self-view, I am given to understand).
Or are you perhaps some sad dull person who will believe anything that's beaten in to them hard enough, or are you so sad you were convinced by the lies of others?
Are you perhaps the tooth fairy, the easter-bunny, santa claus?

So, no physical evidence at all then. So your whole belief system is based on unsubstantiated rumour and medieval superstition.

Or perhaps when you were younger you experimented with drugs, is that it? Have you been driven to your evangelical state of lunacy by some dodgy LSD, too much skunk or impure cocaine?

No? So you're just stupid then, fair enough.

hattra
28th May 2005, 15:18
Surely you are not suggesting anyone who claims to be Christian or was brought up as one is a true Christian. I would rather evaluate them on their actions as well
Well, well, might I refer you to: this (http://p201.ezboard.com/fcukfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=18074.topic&start=101&stop=120):


Now you can make the case that Hitler was not actually a Christian, despite professing himself to be one for most of his life, on the basis that his actions were not those of a Christian - few people would disagree with you.

However, having used the argument that "his actions were not those of a Christian", others are entitled to use the same logic and make the case that he was not a humanist, on the basis that his actions were not those of a humanist.

(hattra )

So having used the argument that they were not “true” Christians, because their actions were not Christian, I’m afraid that you now have to accept that someone who did not follow humanist principles, cannot have been a Humanist (or a “true” Humanist, to use your phrase)


my point about the origination of morality of secular humanists. It emanates from within themselves or people like them
Most of the people that I know, who describe themselves as humanists (and yes, people do “declare” themselves to be humanists – secular or otherwise) use the teachings of Christ as their starting point, others base their philosophy on the teachings of Buddha. Their ideas of morality are definitely externally derived.

You appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that, if somebody is not a Creationist Christian, then they are a secular humanist - the world is infinitely more complex than that! You gave Pol Pot as an example of a "Secular Humanist" - his background was Buddhism, followed by a Catholic College, followed by many years studying various left-wing teachings, before he settled on Maoism and the "received wisdom" that Mao and his Little Red Book provided.

The only group I can think of that may have subscribed (approximately) to what you claim ALL humanists subscribe to, was the Ranters, a small, short-lived, mid-17th Century group of free-thinkers. They are usually linked (wrongly, as they had little in common) to the Levellers, a proto-Communist group of the same period.

ChicoLondon
28th May 2005, 15:24
LB

Once again you miss the point - what drove Hitler was that the Aryan race was the perfect human example. Morality stemmed from them and salvation for all the world's ills would be brought about by them. Anyone who continues to suggest Hitler was a Christian or even a theist demonstrates their lack of history and I suspect have not done any reading on the rise of fascism.

Oi dundee once again the metaphor goes way over your head

hattra
28th May 2005, 16:19
Anyone who continues to suggest Hitler was a Christian or even a theist demonstrates their lack of history
To misquote Shakespear
"stiffen up the sinews, imitate the action of an ostrich"

Head still firmly in the sand, eh, CL

All we've had to do to comprehensively destroy your argument about Hitler, is to quote your own cut 'n pastes of his own words back at you.

I learned my knowledge of the Nazi era from a Durham University history graduate, who not only lived through the Nazi era, but also served in the British army of Occupation in Berlin immediately after the war. Where did you cut'n paste your "knowledge" from?

Lucifer Box
28th May 2005, 16:27
Once again, Chico, you try and shimmy around the issue by just making up what others say.

Anyone who continues to suggest Hitler was a Christian or even a theist
Saying that Hitler was not a humanist is not the same as saying that he was a Christian.

dundeegeorge
30th May 2005, 19:29
You didn't use a metaphor, tosser. (For the grammatically challenged , the use of the word tosser was purely an insult and included no attempt at metaphor, hyperbole, irony, or sarcasm.)
Or perhaps that was a biblical metaphor (i.e. it means whatever you want it to mean at any given time) .

I see you still have no proof for your fairy stories then.
But still you persist. Well, one has to acknowledge your amazing devotion to your delusion.
Now pi55 off and go bother some other retards.

jabberjobber
30th May 2005, 19:40
Now pi55 off and go bother some other retards.

Rather than the retards on here, I suppose. Chico is entitled to his view - he cannot offer proof - but then neither can you - which makes you look rather like a schoolboy. Oh me sir, me sir ...

dundeegeorge
30th May 2005, 19:51
I meant go and bother some other retards like himself.
Everybody is entitled to their view. If their view is nonsensical or deluded, then they'll just have to put up with criticism of it.
Hey that's what happens with freedom of speech, a bit of a bummer for the medievalists amongst us, but them's the breaks, kid.

Actually I think I prefer chico to you because at least he actually does seem to have beliefs and is prepared to air them. Unlike your dull and uninspiring self, who seems simply to occasionally intervene in a discussion to nit-pick or chide someone or just to (I assume this is your intention, although I've yet to see any evidence of the efficacy of it) make yourself look witty and/or clever.

As to your posting, I cannot offer proof that there is no god.
therefore there is a god.
You're too stupid even to be american. However, If you really are american, then prove it. Go and clean your gun, and make sure it's loaded first.

fiddleabout
30th May 2005, 20:56
> Go and clean your gun, and make sure it's loaded first.

then give us a Kurt Cobain impersonation.