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LisaContractorUmbrella
20th June 2014, 10:02
HMRC have a dedicated email address to report scheme providers posing as umbrella companies but actually operating tax avoidance schemes employment.intermediaries@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk - feel free to dob away :happy

eek
20th June 2014, 10:11
:banana:

cojak
20th June 2014, 11:34
<rubs hands> :happy

jbryce
20th June 2014, 11:46
HMRC have a dedicated email address to report scheme providers posing as umbrella companies but actually operating tax avoidance schemes employment.intermediaries@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk - feel free to dob away :happy

......and please make sure you include Umbrella Companies with a questionable approach to claiming expenses.

Not quite in the same league, but I had a call from an Umbrella company yesterday with an expenses policy approved by an 'ex-HMRC employee' that was frankly outrageous. It did have the same ring to it as 'QC approved'.

The 'ex-HMRC' employee must have been a janitor.

Quick way of sanitising Umbrellas is to see if they're a member of All Umbrella Companies are Equal (http://www.allumbrellacompaniesareequal.com/).

TheFaQQer
20th June 2014, 13:35
Can someone knock up a standard template? Most end up in my spam folder, but I had another one via Contract Jobs this week, so a nice simple cut and paste job would be nice.

LisaContractorUmbrella
20th June 2014, 13:57
Re: expenses policies - HMRC never, ever, ever approve anything ever

horrada
20th June 2014, 14:01
HMRC have a dedicated email address to report scheme providers posing as umbrella companies but actually operating tax avoidance schemes employment.intermediaries@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk - feel free to dob away :happy
So they can do SOD ALL for another 10 years.

Embra
23rd June 2014, 15:00
..

Batcher
23rd June 2014, 15:51
Just got this little beauty through

<mod: removing a numpty moment :rolleyes: >

Oops. You left your email exposed :throw:

BrilloPad
23rd June 2014, 17:32
Why would anyone want to help HMRC?

eek
23rd June 2014, 18:55
Why would anyone want to help HMRC?

In my case, to save the idiots who join these schemes from themselves...

jbryce
23rd June 2014, 20:59
In my case, to save the idiots who join these schemes from themselves...

....although it doesn't help them. There are no, effective, penalties for the promoters of these schemes; HMRC just appear to sit back and do very little. When HMRC do sit up - it would appear to be the idiots who lose out.

They don't even publish a list of dodgy schemes which, with a bit of SEO, could at least provide a warning.

Anyway, I'm seeing my MP on Friday to talk about targeting promoters.

kal
24th June 2014, 08:27
....although it doesn't help them. There are no, effective, penalties for the promoters of these schemes; HMRC just appear to sit back and do very little. When HMRC do sit up - it would appear to be the idiots who lose out.

They don't even publish a list of dodgy schemes which, with a bit of SEO, could at least provide a warning.

Anyway, I'm seeing my MP on Friday to talk about targeting promoters.

Indeed, whats the point of reporting them so that HMRC can then do nothing about it, if they outlawed it this PR exercise would be unnecessary.

I have an aversion to helping HMRC with anything beyond what I am legally required to do as they are a joke, I once spent over an hour on hold to the local tax office to query a tax demand they wrongly sent me (not a freephone number I might add), maybe they should get their own house in order first...

DotasScandal
25th June 2014, 15:58
In my case, to save the idiots who join these schemes from themselves...

It's been a while since you posted a really condescending post.
I was starting to be worried...

cojak
25th June 2014, 16:13
It's been a while since you posted a really condescending post.
I was starting to be worried...

You're a late comer to the party - we've been at this since 2005... (http://forums.contractoruk.com/accounting-legal/2869-concern-about-payschemeplus.html#post34485)

eek
25th June 2014, 18:23
It's been a while since you posted a really condescending post.
I was starting to be worried...

So what brought your attention to the pain that these schemes cause people. Gross stupidity or outright greed

TheDandy
25th June 2014, 18:57
So what brought your attention to the pain that these schemes cause people. Gross stupidity or outright greed

A brown envelope on the doormat.

jbryce
25th June 2014, 20:45
So what brought your attention to the pain that these schemes cause people. Gross stupidity or outright greed

a tad unfair.....some, many, where recommended this, by their accountant, as a pain free alternative to IR35. I'm a fantastic techie and, was, naive as to the vagaries of tax etc. I trusted my accountant, he trusted the law.

I guess the lesson here is that if you choose to be a contractor you need to be good at your profession, have your eyes wide open and also accept that the executive will alter the rules. It's not personal. We're an easy target.

F*** - it's been a painful lesson.

BrilloPad
25th June 2014, 20:48
I thought this was a professional forum so comments would have been moderated. But since the gloves are off....

HMRC have proved themselves incompetent liars who have way way too many powers. Anyone who helps them might as well be helping the Nazis. You are effectively helping to send people to their death - certainly in my case reporting the scheme would have done no good atall and probably made things worse.

If you have an energy trying to make things better then spend it elsewhere. Plenty of charities could do with your help.

As for me, I am now totally f**ked and its just a case of waiting for the end game to play out.

BrilloPad
25th June 2014, 20:49
F*** - it's going to be a painful lesson.

FTFY

eek
25th June 2014, 21:04
a tad unfair.....some, many, where recommended this, by their accountant, as a pain free alternative to IR35. I'm a fantastic techie and, was, naive as to the vagaries of tax etc. I trusted my accountant, he trusted the law.

I guess the lesson here is that if you choose to be a contractor you need to be good at your profession, have your eyes wide open and also accept that the executive will alter the rules. It's not personal. We're an easy target.

F*** - it's been a painful lesson.

Don't forget he asked for a really condescending post so I gave him one.

The thing is that I've always been far more comfortable with IR35 than trusting a "tax expert" and their dodgy scheme. It might be that I'm incredibly cynical or it may be that I dealt with Tax Accountants during my year off before uni but I really don't trust people playing intellectual games with my money.

jbryce
25th June 2014, 22:15
Don't forget he asked for a really condescending post so I gave him one.

Fair point :)


It might be that I'm incredibly cynical
Cynical maybe, but at least you aren't getting kicked across the park by HMRC.

Seriously though - people are getting out of the schemes. Everyone knows someone being impacted by this. If this all stops at DOTAS, and kills all the schemes off as a side product - great. Worse case there will be another round of contractors hit by the next wave - and I'd really not wish this on them.

Let HMRC do some proactive work.

cojak
26th June 2014, 05:20
We've been pointing and laughing for years.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/general/78887-garraway-consultants-too-good-true.html#post1549849

jbryce
26th June 2014, 16:41
We've been pointing and laughing for years.

it's really, really, really not that funny.........

malvolio
26th June 2014, 17:37
it's really, really, really not that funny.........
No, of course it isn't. However, when faced with 9 years of people saying they are a very bad idea...

jbryce
29th June 2014, 14:58
No, of course it isn't. However, when faced with 9 years of people saying they are a very bad idea...

still not funny......

On a cheerier note - one scheme offered me a £1,500 incentive to join last week. They're getting desperate, they're dying.

Whatever you may think about the Finance Bill 2014 - it has destroyed contractor avoidance schemes. They're totally starved of oxygen.

I think I might laugh at anyone joining one now though......

LisaContractorUmbrella
30th June 2014, 07:05
still not funny......

On a cheerier note - one scheme offered me a £1,500 incentive to join last week. They're getting desperate, they're dying.

Whatever you may think about the Finance Bill 2014 - it has destroyed contractor avoidance schemes. They're totally starved of oxygen.

I think I might laugh at anyone joining one now though......

£1500 :eek That really is desperation!!

TykeMerc
30th June 2014, 16:52
To be fair no matter when you started using a scheme, you must have considered that there was/is an element of risk that HMRC would not only shut it down, but do their damnedest to find fault with the approach.

You would have to be astoundingly naive to have believed that you were untouchable when paying so little tax on a large income.

While I object deeply to the retrospective alterations of badly worded tax law, I have limited sympathy for people that used multiple schemes and absolutely none for anyone stupid enough to sign up for one in the last 7 or so years.