Jim Mellon - Pro Brexit Jim Mellon - Pro Brexit - Page 6
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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    indeed, although this time the argument seems to have been successfully concluded.

    sshhh, go and read about it.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by woohoo View Post
    sshhh, go and read about it.
    Indeed I enjoy reading about it, for example the GDP growth statistics.



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  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    Indeed I enjoy reading about it, for example the GDP growth statistics.



    How much of the GDP is made up of government spending? Then how much is made up of EU bailouts. Then say, tourism, how much does that make up of GDP.

    Do you know how much tax is lost as higher taxes are avoided by people just using the black economy?

    You mentioned employment, obviously many people have left to get work but most new jobs are part-time and underpaid. How are their banks doing? When will austerity finish, you know the increasing austerity they implemented to gain access to the bailout money. When are they scheduled to pay that back?

    Greece will improve it may takes years but I'm sure it will improve. It can't get any lower. But my point has always been read up about how the EU handled the crisis. Looks at the German banks exposure to this crisis. Look at how they got their money back. Read up on it.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by woohoo View Post
    How much of the GDP is made up of government spending? Then how much is made up of EU bailouts. Then say, tourism, how much does that make up of GDP.

    Greece exited the bailout last year, no more money from the EU and it's still growing

    Quote Originally Posted by woohoo View Post
    Do you know how much tax is lost as higher taxes are avoided by people just using the black economy?

    .
    Greece Government Budget | 2019 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast | News

    Greece recorded a Government Budget surplus equal to 1.10 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2018.

    Greece is now running a budget surplus and tax receipts are back to where they were when the crisis started. Since Greece adopted the measures agreed with the EU, tax receipts have been steadily rising.
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  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    Greece exited the bailout last year, no more money from the EU and it's still growing
    Greece is now running a budget surplus and tax receipts are back to where they were when the crisis started. Since Greece adopted the measures agreed with the EU, tax receipts have been steadily rising.

    Greece exited the bailout but you posted a graph with multiple years. So the point still stands the GDP is driven by government spending and for some years by EU cash.

    The surplus you talked about has to be increased for a number of years to reach the EU projections for government debt to reach 100 percent GDP. Yep we are looking at decades of increased austerity or a miraculous economic recovery not driven by government spending.

    Now, assuming Greece can somehow increase it's budget surplus and maintain that they will still have to borrow billions from private investors just to pay it's existing debts. God help Greece if it can't increase and maintain it's budget surplus because those private investors arent going hand cash over if Greece can't maintain this incredible growth and surplus for decades.

    So it's still entirely possible that Greece may still default on it's debt. But now it's not so bad because before German and French banks could not cover those loses. Now through an amazing bit of luck the banks have passed this debt onto the Greece people via the EU.

    Now, having said all that my original point was look at how the EU handled the crisis. Read about it.

    I hope that in the next decades Greece does recover because that's a hell of a long time to live with that kind of austerity. Look at the suicides and mental health situation.

    But just have a read about the EU and how it handled the Greece crisis.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by woohoo View Post
    Greece exited the bailout but you posted a graph with multiple years. So the point still stands the GDP is driven by government spending and for some years by EU cash.

    The surplus you talked about has to be increased for a number of years to reach the EU projections for government debt to reach 100 percent GDP. Yep we are looking at decades of increased austerity or a miraculous economic recovery not driven by government spending.

    Now, assuming Greece can somehow increase it's budget surplus and maintain that they will still have to borrow billions from private investors just to pay it's existing debts. God help Greece if it can't increase and maintain it's budget surplus because those private investors arent going hand cash over if Greece can't maintain this incredible growth and surplus for decades.

    So it's still entirely possible that Greece may still default on it's debt. But now it's not so bad because before German and French banks could not cover those loses. Now through an amazing bit of luck the banks have passed this debt onto the Greece people via the EU.

    Now, having said all that my original point was look at how the EU handled the crisis. Read about it.

    I hope that in the next decades Greece does recover because that's a hell of a long time to live with that kind of austerity. Look at the suicides and mental health situation.

    But just have a read about the EU and how it handled the Greece crisis.
    You make a completely inconsistent argument, how can Greece be driving growth with spending when it's actually cutting expenditure

    Greek government expenditure has been decreasing throughout the bailout




    You need to read more.
    Last edited by BlasterBates; 18th June 2019 at 14:45.
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  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by woohoo View Post
    When did I say that Greece was driving growth through Government Spending? I said that government spending was a large part of GDP.

    But I suppose you can ignore everything I typed by pretending to misunderstand something. Posting irrelevant links and side tracking.
    Wrong, it was.

    It is now average at 46% roughly the same as the Netherlands. Perfectly sustainable. Scandinavian countries spend much more. This is a political choice and is perfectly ok as long as it is financed by tax receipts, which it is.
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  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by woohoo View Post

    But just have a read about the EU and how it handled the Greece crisis.
    You keep saying this without quite appreciating that:

    a) The UK is major part of the EU, so very much a part of the problem if there is one;
    b) Greece can, as a sovereign nation, walk away at any time. Perhaps they consider themselves to be better off in the EU, rather than out of it?

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    Wrong, it was.

    It is now average at 46% roughly the same as the Netherlands. Perfectly sustainable. Scandinavian countries spend much more. This is a political choice and is perfectly ok as long as it is financed by tax receipts, which it is.
    Cool, I was trying to bow out of this.

    I found it enlightening and shocking to read about how the crisis was handled. It really opened my eyes. I thought perhaps you would find it interesting but you seem to be blinkered. Even the talk of Greece taking decades to recover and still then there being a good chance they could default on their debt, still hasn't changed your mind.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by meridian View Post
    You keep saying this without quite appreciating that:

    a) The UK is major part of the EU, so very much a part of the problem if there is one;
    b) Greece can, as a sovereign nation, walk away at any time. Perhaps they consider themselves to be better off in the EU, rather than out of it?
    a. German and French banks, had the major problem. The UK banks not really exposed that much. The EU handled it badly but was really driven by the Germans and French.
    b. Perhaps.

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