He's quite correct. It is no mirror position nevertheless that doesn't stop Murdoch's faithful putting propaganda before reason.
What a @£$@£ mess.
source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...mment-98323941
What a @£$@£ mess.
The Brexit trap that's closing on Britons who live in Europe
Lisa O'CarrollThursday 11 May 2017 07.00 BST
Bernadette and Alan Faulkner
Bernadette and Alan Faulkner: we face being ‘locked into living in Germany for the rest of our lives’. Photograph: Dominik Gigler/the Guardian
Brexit negotiations will leave UK citizens in Europe in a far worse position than EU citizens in the UK, a group of British professionals living in Germany has warned.
There are about 100,000 Britons living in Germany. On Monday, discussions held by a group of about 50 of them in Munich focused on concerns that neither European nor British governments have fully understood the severity of the consequences of Brexit for people in their position.
Briton David Hole, who has lived and practised law in Germany since 1993, pointed out that the fact that EU citizens in the UK will still be part of the union will put them in a significantly stronger position than their British counterparts in Europe.
“You regularly see the 3 million EU citizens in the UK and 1.2 million UK citizens in the EU in the same sentence as if they are in mirror positions,” he said. “They are not. UK citizens will lose all their rights, EU citizens do not. We are in a far worse position.”
UK citizens living in Europe will end up with fewer rights than EU citizens living in the UK after Brexit and fear they could be “locked in” to the country where they have moved to, it has emerged.
The rights UK nationals acquired under EU law to live, work, set up a business or provide services will all fall away on Brexit day, Hole told a group of about 50 British nationals at a meeting in Munich on Monday. This was the second meeting of the impromptu group, which represents just a sliver of the estimated 18,000 Britons settled in Bavaria, 6,000 of whom are in Munich.
The group is anxious that the voice of British working professionals who live in Europe is not drowned out by the better known challenges facing the likes of pensioners on the Costa del Sol.
Some have chosen to live abroad to broaden their horizons, others because their companies moved there. But their concerns are the same – they worry that their professional qualifications may not be recognised post Brexit, that their right to work and advance their careers will be blighted and that in retirement they will not be able to draw on a pension they may have aggregated in two or three countries in their careers.
“EU citizens won’t lose their rights, they simply won’t be able to use them while they live in the UK,” Hole said. “They will still have the right to live in another EU country, the right to work there, the right to freedom of movement, the right to have their qualifications recognised.
British expats in Spain count the Costa Brexit
“Our position is we will have none of these,” he went on. “The 1.2 million UK citizens living in Europe will lose all their acquired EU rights after Brexit. How we address that remains a question here.”
Hole said the plight of EU citizens in the UK has “hideous” personal consequences. However, he said his point is that their situation can be resolved by one government, the British government, whereas the plight of the British in Germany for instance involves agreement of 27 member states.
“I, as a UK citizen, lose my European citizen rights in 27 countries, other EU nationals lose their rights in one country the UK. Hardly a good deal for the UK and certainly not democratic or fair to those UK nationals who live in other parts of the EU,” said Bernadette Faulkner, who has lived in Munich with her British husband, Alan, since 1977.
They are now retired but are concerned about their own future right to move. “Even assuming that the Brexit negotiations guarantee our acquired EU right of abode in Germany, we are essentially locked into living in Germany for the rest of our lives because our right to live in other EU states will be lost,” Alan said.
People discuss their concerns about the rights of British people living in Germany at the meeting.
People discuss their concerns about the rights of British people living in Germany at the meeting. Photograph: Dominik Gigler for the Guardian
“The EU citizens in the UK will be able to travel freely if they want they go to another country. I can’t. I have two opportunities – one is to remain here for the rest of my life or the second is to go back to the UK. We are landlocked,” he added.
Others at the meeting expressed concern that professional rights may not be recognised post Brexit. Actuary Zawar Saleemi, who has worked in financial services in Munich for 18 months, said: “In the post-Brexit world, I won’t have the ability to move around. I may even have to stay with one employer if I want to stay in Munich,” he said.
Ken Gray, 53, a Scot who came to Germany 15 years ago, runs the German arm of engineering company Verilab. He said he is concerned that his British staff may not be able to move around Europe easily any more. “What will their status be in Germany? Will they be able to move around Europe to visit clients?”
Many of those at the meeting spoke of their anger and frustration at not being able to vote following the government’s failure to deliver its 2015 manifesto promise that those who have lived overseas for longer than 15 years would be allowed to vote in general elections.
British in Europe, a coalition representing 11 different groups across Europe lobbying for UK citizens’ rights post Brexit, has urged Theresa May to renew the Conservative’s pledge to give all those overseas the vote.
In a letter to the prime minister, lawyer Jane Golding told her: “There is consternation, and anger, at the failure by the government to honour its 2015 general election manifesto pledge to introduce votes for life.”
Lisa O'CarrollThursday 11 May 2017 07.00 BST
Bernadette and Alan Faulkner
Bernadette and Alan Faulkner: we face being ‘locked into living in Germany for the rest of our lives’. Photograph: Dominik Gigler/the Guardian
Brexit negotiations will leave UK citizens in Europe in a far worse position than EU citizens in the UK, a group of British professionals living in Germany has warned.
There are about 100,000 Britons living in Germany. On Monday, discussions held by a group of about 50 of them in Munich focused on concerns that neither European nor British governments have fully understood the severity of the consequences of Brexit for people in their position.
Briton David Hole, who has lived and practised law in Germany since 1993, pointed out that the fact that EU citizens in the UK will still be part of the union will put them in a significantly stronger position than their British counterparts in Europe.
“You regularly see the 3 million EU citizens in the UK and 1.2 million UK citizens in the EU in the same sentence as if they are in mirror positions,” he said. “They are not. UK citizens will lose all their rights, EU citizens do not. We are in a far worse position.”
UK citizens living in Europe will end up with fewer rights than EU citizens living in the UK after Brexit and fear they could be “locked in” to the country where they have moved to, it has emerged.
The rights UK nationals acquired under EU law to live, work, set up a business or provide services will all fall away on Brexit day, Hole told a group of about 50 British nationals at a meeting in Munich on Monday. This was the second meeting of the impromptu group, which represents just a sliver of the estimated 18,000 Britons settled in Bavaria, 6,000 of whom are in Munich.
The group is anxious that the voice of British working professionals who live in Europe is not drowned out by the better known challenges facing the likes of pensioners on the Costa del Sol.
Some have chosen to live abroad to broaden their horizons, others because their companies moved there. But their concerns are the same – they worry that their professional qualifications may not be recognised post Brexit, that their right to work and advance their careers will be blighted and that in retirement they will not be able to draw on a pension they may have aggregated in two or three countries in their careers.
“EU citizens won’t lose their rights, they simply won’t be able to use them while they live in the UK,” Hole said. “They will still have the right to live in another EU country, the right to work there, the right to freedom of movement, the right to have their qualifications recognised.
British expats in Spain count the Costa Brexit
“Our position is we will have none of these,” he went on. “The 1.2 million UK citizens living in Europe will lose all their acquired EU rights after Brexit. How we address that remains a question here.”
Hole said the plight of EU citizens in the UK has “hideous” personal consequences. However, he said his point is that their situation can be resolved by one government, the British government, whereas the plight of the British in Germany for instance involves agreement of 27 member states.
“I, as a UK citizen, lose my European citizen rights in 27 countries, other EU nationals lose their rights in one country the UK. Hardly a good deal for the UK and certainly not democratic or fair to those UK nationals who live in other parts of the EU,” said Bernadette Faulkner, who has lived in Munich with her British husband, Alan, since 1977.
They are now retired but are concerned about their own future right to move. “Even assuming that the Brexit negotiations guarantee our acquired EU right of abode in Germany, we are essentially locked into living in Germany for the rest of our lives because our right to live in other EU states will be lost,” Alan said.
People discuss their concerns about the rights of British people living in Germany at the meeting.
People discuss their concerns about the rights of British people living in Germany at the meeting. Photograph: Dominik Gigler for the Guardian
“The EU citizens in the UK will be able to travel freely if they want they go to another country. I can’t. I have two opportunities – one is to remain here for the rest of my life or the second is to go back to the UK. We are landlocked,” he added.
Others at the meeting expressed concern that professional rights may not be recognised post Brexit. Actuary Zawar Saleemi, who has worked in financial services in Munich for 18 months, said: “In the post-Brexit world, I won’t have the ability to move around. I may even have to stay with one employer if I want to stay in Munich,” he said.
Ken Gray, 53, a Scot who came to Germany 15 years ago, runs the German arm of engineering company Verilab. He said he is concerned that his British staff may not be able to move around Europe easily any more. “What will their status be in Germany? Will they be able to move around Europe to visit clients?”
Many of those at the meeting spoke of their anger and frustration at not being able to vote following the government’s failure to deliver its 2015 manifesto promise that those who have lived overseas for longer than 15 years would be allowed to vote in general elections.
British in Europe, a coalition representing 11 different groups across Europe lobbying for UK citizens’ rights post Brexit, has urged Theresa May to renew the Conservative’s pledge to give all those overseas the vote.
In a letter to the prime minister, lawyer Jane Golding told her: “There is consternation, and anger, at the failure by the government to honour its 2015 general election manifesto pledge to introduce votes for life.”
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