Que será, será

[original PM]

They are applying the same rules to the UK as they do to all other third countries. Stop trying to be a special snowflake.

I really struggle with why you are so resistant to change. The UK is to become a third country, and the rules are different for third countries. You need to be able to adapt to that change.

I voted out because I wanted things to change - thus I have minimal resistance to change.

You want to stay in the EU - primarily it seems because you feel you may be hit in the pocket and this is what I struggle with - you seem to be more than happy to do exactly what you are told, to believe exactly what you are told to believe and to think what you are told to think - so long as you are told your money is safe.

I am not looking for special treatment but I am expecting to live in a world where adults make the right decisions based on what is best for all involved not on what is going to feather their nest.

Naive I know, but while people like you cling to the sort of people who do this thinking it will give you security, it will be difficult to change.

[meridian]

I voted out because I wanted things to change - thus I have minimal resistance to change.

Then you need to stop complaining about the things that are changing.

You want to stay in the EU - primarily it seems because you feel you may be hit in the pocket and this is what I struggle with - you seem to be more than happy to do exactly what you are told, to believe exactly what you are told to believe and to think what you are told to think - so long as you are told your money is safe.

On the contrary, leaving the EU is a great money-spinner for me. You've removed my competition from Brits for working in Europe, and as a logistics consultant I have enough work in changing supply chains to keep me going until retirement.

I have very different reasons for wanting to stay in the EU.

I am not looking for special treatment but I am expecting to live in a world where adults make the right decisions based on what is best for all involved not on what is going to feather their nest.

Good. Then you will understand that the decisions being made by the EU are the best for the EU.

Naive I know, but while people like you cling to the sort of people who do this thinking it will give you security, it will be difficult to change.

It's not difficult to change at all. The UK is changing. You need to accept that, instead of complaining that the EU isn't giving you what you want.

[Old Greg]

I voted out because I wanted things to change - thus I have minimal resistance to change.

You want to stay in the EU - primarily it seems because you feel you may be hit in the pocket and this is what I struggle with - you seem to be more than happy to do exactly what you are told, to believe exactly what you are told to believe and to think what you are told to think - so long as you are told your money is safe.

I am not looking for special treatment but I am expecting to live in a world where adults make the right decisions based on what is best for all involved not on what is going to feather their nest.

Naive I know, but while people like you cling to the sort of people who do this thinking it will give you security, it will be difficult to change.

Is one of the changes you would like to see the near elimination of manufacturing in the British economy and for jobs to be mainly in industries such as design and marketing?

[original PM]

It's not difficult to change at all. The UK is changing. You need to accept that, instead of complaining that the EU isn't giving you what you want.

Ah now I understand.

I never wanted or expected anything personally from the EU.

I never want or expect anything personally from anyone.

I guess you believe that free healthcare is a basic human right.

[Old Greg]

Ah now I understand.

I never wanted or expected anything personally from the EU.

I never want or expect anything personally from anyone.

I guess you believe that free healthcare is a basic human right.

If it isn't, what's your plan for babies born needing renal dialysis?

[Whorty]

Ah now I understand.

I never wanted or expected anything personally from the EU.

I never want or expect anything personally from anyone.

I guess you believe that free healthcare is a basic human right.

Yes, absolutely. Or do you think only those who are affluent enough to pay for life saving medication should get it and that those too poor should be left to die?

As an aside I live in South Africa a few years back. Their health service is based on being able to afford it. If you're knocked over or in a car crash, and an ambulance rocks up they ask to see your insurance first - if you don't have any the private ambulances will just move on and leave you. Only about 15% of South Africans can afford private medical insurance, the rest are left to the grossly underfunded state system. This results in a much higher mortality rate for the 85% compared to the 15% ...... is this what you want to see in the UK too? Do you not think the £350m dividend from brexit per week should be used to fund the NHS then?

[original PM]

If it isn't, what's your plan for babies born needing renal dialysis?

So you are ok with slavery then?

The argument is thus.

Everyone is free to chose a career.

Therefore everyone is free not to chose a career in healthcare

Therefore if there are no people working in healthcare and you believe healthcare is a human right the therefore some people must be forced into slavery to work in healthcare.

The actual larger argument is you cannot have a basic human right which requires the effort of others.

[meridian]

So you are ok with slavery then?

The argument is thus.

Everyone is free to chose a career.

Therefore everyone is free not to chose a career in healthcare

Therefore if there are no people working in healthcare and you believe healthcare is a human right the therefore some people must be forced into slavery to work in healthcare.

The actual larger argument is you cannot have a basic human right which requires the effort of others.

You do understand the difference between slavery and a career, don't you? I.e. the basic premise that slavery is both forced and unpaid? Does your understanding of economics stretch to market forces, where if there is not enough demand being filled then salaries will rise to a point where people will choose that career?

Or how about your understanding of philosophy, where it is perfectly acceptable to believe in something (basic healthcare) while also understanding that this might not always be possible?

[Old Greg]

So you are ok with slavery then?

The argument is thus.

Everyone is free to chose a career.

Therefore everyone is free not to chose a career in healthcare

Therefore if there are no people working in healthcare and you believe healthcare is a human right the therefore some people must be forced into slavery to work in healthcare.

The actual larger argument is you cannot have a basic human right which requires the effort of others.

It is a silly sixth form debating society argument. It would indeed become a conundrum if nobody chooses a career in healthcare. Give me a shout when that happens.

Presumably you don't believe you have a right to protection from murderers because you might have to enslave people into law enforcement.

[Cirrus]

I really struggle with why you are so resistant to change and have a deep desire to be a part of a centralised Europe, it's fine, it's your choice and I respect that but I simply do not understand it.

There is absolutely no truth in saying anti-Brexiteers are resistant to change. You haven't offered any change, just completely undefined nothingness. No new world order, no new immigration, trade or sovereignty propositions. All you lot keep talking about is anodyne abstract nouns, or a load of scenarios which, as far as anyone could guess what they really mean, are simply impossible.


The EU is far, far from centralised. It is a loose federation with all sorts of conflicting interests and behaviours. I don't particularly like the EU but then again I don't particularly like Ryanair but both do what I would expect to be done so they're OK as a practical choices. If something better comes along, please let us anti-Brexiteers know and we can take advantage. Supporting the EU doesn't imply some ideological admiration. The UK tried for a long time to get in. We were desperate. Nobody has explained why now we suddenly cannot benefit from membership in the same way.


You're the ones with ideological beliefs that defy reason. We're the ones trying to be practical.