• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

We must choose the open sea!

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #11
    Originally posted by original PM View Post
    But not a European Super State with a centralised dictatorship though.

    Not quite the fooking same is it?
    That would be why he opposed the Nazis and supported a European association of independent nations, such as the EU.

    Comment


      #12
      Originally posted by original PM View Post
      1930 was a long time ago.

      You know before the Germans decide to murder 6 million innocent people because they did not fit the profile.

      Before the Spanish civil war

      And the greek civil war

      And the Italian civil war

      In fact it would probably be fair to say that Europe in 1930 was a completely different place than Europe in 1950.

      So it would also I imagine be fair to say that people's views and attitudes may also have changed.
      He also said in 1950 during a debate on the Schuman Plan.
      Hansard, June 27th 1950

      Originally posted by Winston Churchill
      No one can contend that sovereignty will be affected by our participation in the discussions in Paris which are the subject of our Motion and the Amendment tonight. They are well protected by the cumulative safeguards which I mentioned earlier. Nevertheless, there is a great moral and idealistic issue which, though irrelevant to our immediate purpose, has been stirred by the discussions which have taken place. We are asked in a challenging way: "Are you prepared to part with any degree of national sovereignty in any circumstances for the sake of a larger synthesis?" My right hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington, with his prolonged experience in foreign affairs, has faced the issue, hypothetical though it be, plainly 2159 and squarely. The Conservative and Liberal Parties say, without hesitation, that we are prepared to consider, and if convinced to accept, the abrogation of national sovereignty, provided that we are satisfied with the conditions and the safeguards.

      Nay, I will go further and say that for the sake of world organisation we would even run risks and make sacrifices. We fought alone against tyranny for a whole year, not purely from national motives. It is true that our lives depended upon our doing so, but we fought the better because we felt with conviction that it was not only our own cause but a world cause for which the Union Jack was kept flying in 1940 and 1941. The soldier who laid down his life, the mother who wept for her son, and the wife who lost her husband, got inspiration or comfort, and felt a sense of being linked with the universal and the eternal by the fact that we fought for what was precious not only for ourselves but for mankind. The Conservative and Liberal Parties declare that national sovereignty is not inviolable, and that it may be resolutely diminished for the sake of all the men in all the lands finding their way home together.
      You don't see the Leavers rolling that one out though do you?

      In fact they only way they could get Winston "on board" was to actually fabricate a quote from two completely unrelated occasions over 20 years apart.
      Last edited by DaveB; 18 June 2019, 08:28.
      "Being nice costs nothing and sometimes gets you extra bacon" - Pondlife.

      Comment


        #13
        Originally posted by Whorty View Post
        Someone needs to research Hansard and confirm what he really said rather than relying on xenophobic lies from the internet

        Here's a clue, he supported the creation of a United States of Europe, sponsored by the UK, USSR and the USA.
        FTFY.

        He supported us helping in the creation of, never did he say we should join.
        Old Greg - In search of acceptance since Mar 2007. Hoping each leap will be his last.

        Comment


          #14
          Originally posted by Zigenare View Post
          FTFY.

          He supported us helping in the creation of, never did he say we should join.
          Actually he did.

          Winston S. Churchill: His Complete Speeches Vol. 8 page 8681
          July 1957, Westminster Hall Speech:

          He welcomed the formation of a ‘common market’ by the six, provided that, “the whole of free Europe will have access.” He added, “we genuinely wish to join.”
          August 1961
          LETTERS No longer relevant >> 12 Jun 1993 >> The Spectator Archive
          “I think that the Government are right to apply to join the European Economic Community...”
          Churchill supported the ‘welding’ of West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg into ‘an organic whole’, which he described as a ‘happy outcome’ of the European Economic Community. Churchill added:
          "We might well play a great part in these developments to the profit of not only ourselves, but of our European friends also."
          You might also want to consider the opinions of his family, who actually knew him.

          Originally posted by Sir Nicholas Soames, Churchills Grandson
          Sir Nicholas told The Independent newspaper:
          “Winston Churchill was a profound believer in the values of European co-operation and the need for it, and I am very disappointed to see these people twisting his views to suit their own ends.”
          Last edited by DaveB; 18 June 2019, 08:42. Reason: Typo
          "Being nice costs nothing and sometimes gets you extra bacon" - Pondlife.

          Comment


            #15
            The UK won't be the UK for very long after it leaves in October.

            Britain’s Next Prime Minister Has Probably Already Lost Scotland

            England will be so busy trying to sort out its own split that Europe will be able to kick "rest UK" around.

            I'm alright Jack

            Comment


              #16
              I find it quite amusing how all the Eurosceptics go on about the breakup Eurozone and are blind to their own country falling apart. If there is a "real Brexit" the pound also might fall apart.

              I'm alright Jack

              Comment


                #17
                Originally posted by original PM View Post
                But not a European Super State with a centralised dictatorship though.

                Not quite the fooking same is it?
                There is no centralised dictatorship. That's just in your little paranoid head.

                Try reading and understanding what he really said, and not what you read on Facebook groups or other right wing lying sources. Also, I know Churchill is the hero of xenophobes, but he is only one man and it's not just his view that counts.

                FFS, you guys really are precious. Even when faced with fact your blinded hatred of others blinkers you
                I am what I drink, and I'm a bitter man

                Comment


                  #18
                  Originally posted by Zigenare View Post
                  FTFY.

                  He supported us helping in the creation of, never did he say we should join.

                  Only if you selectively twist his words and meanings.

                  He's the kind of politician who would take up a rifle to fight against right wing extremism.

                  Unlike Farage, who openly stated, with no comment about it being an allegory, that he would take up a rifle to fight anyone who disagreed with his right wing views.
                  …Maybe we ain’t that young anymore

                  Comment


                    #19
                    Originally posted by WTFH View Post
                    Only if you selectively twist his words and meanings.

                    He's the kind of politician who would take up a rifle to fight against right wing extremism.

                    Unlike Farage, who openly stated, with no comment about it being an allegory, that he would take up a rifle to fight anyone who disagreed with his right wing views.
                    He didn't quite say that though, did he?

                    Would you say that the "European Union" is a "Common Market", or something more?
                    Old Greg - In search of acceptance since Mar 2007. Hoping each leap will be his last.

                    Comment


                      #20
                      Originally posted by Winston Churchill
                      to accept, the abrogation of national sovereignty
                      Surprised Old Greg et al haven't started a séance to ask Winston exactly how our sovereignty has been lost...
                      Originally posted by Old Greg
                      I admit I'm just a lazy, lying cretinous hypocrite and must be going deaf
                      ♕Keep calm & carry on♕

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X