IR35; have you walked away?

[anthony]

Hi all,

Just a question mainly. Have you every walked away from a gig because its failed a IR35 review and the client wouldn't amend it to become IR35 friendly?

[cojak]

Yes.

[jamesbrown]

I'm tempted to say "No" so you have both possible answers in two posts.

I guess your question is really about how often this happens and what to do. In my experience (not necessarily representative, though, as I work with minimal D&C through the nature of the work), it's generally possible to clarify problems with contract wording. If you work via an agency, it's worth involving the professionals to negotiate for you (an agent will generally listen to someone that knows what they're talking about). What's less straightforward to do, however, is to change the reality of the situation in the working practices, and this is what really matters. In other words, I'd always avoid dressing up a contract if you think the reality is going to be questionable.

[TheFaQQer]

No.

It's not about the contract, it's about the reality of the situation.

[SueEllen]

Yes.

I had a potential client say the contract couldn't be amended - strangely they had difficulty recruiting from the UK.....

[malvolio]

Yes, but not just because of IR35.

[anthony]

so the feeling i am getting from the responses is that work practices does indeed play a major role along side the contract; even if that does fail, but it would be good to also have a ir35 friendly contract as well?

The contract has been reviewed via QDOS who failed it on D&C and RoS. Suppose this is the first time going direct with a client, so probably a bit more cautious I guess (mainly cold feet ).

[Jubber]

No.

It's not about the contract, it's about the reality of the situation.

^This - plus, I would never turn down work just because of IR35.

[Scruff]

Yes, as per Cojak. I'm not an employee, disguised, or otherwise. I regard my business as bona fide and act accordingly.

[malvolio]

so the feeling i am getting from the responses is that work practices does indeed play a major role along side the contract; even if that does fail, but it would be good to also have a ir35 friendly contract as well?

The contract has been reviewed via QDOS who failed it on D&C and RoS. Suppose this is the first time going direct with a client, so probably a bit more cautious I guess (mainly cold feet ).

As far as IR35 is concerned, the working practices are paramount; the contract is there to explain any areas of uncertainty.

As for RoS, they clearly want you but that doesn't mean you can't have the right to sub subject to their approval as to the subbie's competence and qualification, such approval not to be unreasonably withheld.

However IR35 is a minor issue if you are direct. Apart from the low likelihood of you being under D&C anyway, you should have a lot more control over the arrangements with things like payment terms and rework, as well as clearly defined deliverables. Why prat about with a contract that requires a review anyway, use one of the standard IPSE ones, or even work to a simple Purchase Order (like what I does for various bit of freelance work), and get well way from any risk of being seen as an employee.