State of the Market State of the Market - Page 548
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  1. #5471

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    As I said the outsources are desperate for work and have cut rates to the bone...
    Id like to hear from you eek in that case if you agree with the £198 for a mid level ten years experienced Java dev in Lithuania bearing is mind that is only 250usd

    Even if that was true and I have doubts about that paying £350 for a Uk based London onshore contractor is not that much more. Or am I missing something

  2. #5472

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  3. #5473

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    Quote Originally Posted by NowPermOutsideUK View Post
    Id like to hear from you eek in that case if you agree with the £198 for a mid level ten years experienced Java dev in Lithuania bearing is mind that is only 250usd

    Even if that was true and I have doubts about that paying £350 for a Uk based London onshore contractor is not that much more. Or am I missing something
    It's not my market but in my market:-

    London consultancy rates which would be £1200+ can be hired for £650
    Offshores rates in India and Eastern Europe which would be £400 all in are easily findable for £250 (for named resources and I insist on that as I want the people I know will deliver).
    Last edited by eek; 11th October 2020 at 11:51.
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  4. #5474

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    Quote Originally Posted by NowPermOutsideUK View Post
    Thank you bluenose for an insightful post with figure to back up your views. Very very helpful

    This in particular “ State of the market update from me remains: "£25k Leeds - Perm." or "£350pd London - Inside IR35".
    That’s what i am being offered. No joke.

    The jokes stopped in June.

  5. #5475

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    It's not my market but in my market:-

    London consultancy rates which would be £1200+ can be hired for £650
    Offshores rates in India and Eastern Europe which would be £400 all in are easily findable for £250 (for named resources and I insist on that as I want the people I know will deliver).
    Being from Poland I can tell you that £250pd / £5k a month is a rate most would bite your hand off for as the conversion rate for £ to zl (zloty, local currency) is almost 1 to 5. What is worth keeping in mind is that these sort of pay levels are already possible with perm jobs at senior / in-demand positions, so we are not talking sky high rates either. Software dev market is growing massively there and it's getting more and more expensive, so I wouldn't be surprised if outsourcing to still cheaper countries like Latvia / Ukraine isn't going to get more popular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsc View Post
    Being from Poland I can tell you that £250pd / £5k a month is a rate most would bite your hand off for as the conversion rate for £ to zl (zloty, local currency) is almost 1 to 5. What is worth keeping in mind is that these sort of pay levels are already possible with perm jobs at senior / in-demand positions, so we are not talking sky high rates either. Software dev market is growing massively there and it's getting more and more expensive, so I wouldn't be surprised if outsourcing to still cheaper countries like Latvia / Ukraine isn't going to get more popular.
    £250 isn't the rate that the freelancer is being paid, that's the rate the outsourcing company is charging for a day of their time.
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

  7. #5477

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    £250 isn't the rate that the freelancer is being paid, that's the rate the outsourcing company is charging for a day of their time.
    And therefore the actual person will be lucky to get half of that as the consultancy partners sit in their offices smoking cigars and pimping the workers whilst counting their profits....

    I ve no clue whether that 250 USD covers the office rental cost and desk or whether it is just the time ...

  8. #5478

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    Quote Originally Posted by NowPermOutsideUK View Post
    And therefore the actual person will be lucky to get half of that as the consultancy partners sit in their offices smoking cigars and pimping the workers whilst counting their profits....

    I ve no clue whether that 250 USD covers the office rental cost and desk or whether it is just the time ...
    It willl more than cover the direct cost of that resource bit I wouldng want to guess how much more. The current battle is keeping resources employed so that at least their employment costs are covered, anything else is a bonus.
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

  9. #5479

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    No experience in the financials behind a consultancy engagement just what I remember reading somewhere like Glassdoor for EY bods but I thought it broke down the following way: a third goes to salary for the consultant, a third covers company expenses (marketing, plush offices, director's salaries), the rest is profit for the company.

  10. #5480

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    As this thread heads towards 1M views, it proves the saying that "misery loves company".

    For anyone struggling to find a contract, or in a dark place mentally, it's fair to say this thread will be of no use whatsoever.

    The added burden of COVID isolation will no doubt intensify the sense of fear and worry for those individuals prone to anxiety anyway. And for anyone desperate to find work in isolation without a support network, this is undoubtedly a bad time.

    IMO the market is the same as it ever was. Arguably even a boom time for those earning good rates with no travelling expenses.

    The market has not collapsed. Demand for quality contractors is still high.

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