Contracting or Perm??

[pauldee]

I kinda agree. There’s no such thing as a safe job any more, but on the flip side it’s harder to get rid of permies. And the larger the company the harder even then to sack them.

In my experience contractors do the work the permies cannot, or cannot be bothered to, do. Bad contractors don’t get renewed.

So you’re right but it doesn’t reflect the fact that permies do hang around for a lot longer.

A permie can be sacked at pretty much any moment before the two year cut off for any reason (as long as they can't prove any kind of discrimination). And when you bear in mind it's quite common to move around every couple of years, there are permies out there who spend their careers with pretty much no more employment rights than you would get in the US.

Having said that, when the purse string tighten it's usually the contractors who are first to go.

[rocktronAMP]

A permie can be sacked at pretty much any moment before the two year cut off for any reason (as long as they can't prove any kind of discrimination). And when you bear in mind it's quite common to move around every couple of years, there are permies out there who spend their careers with pretty much no more employment rights than you would get in the US.

Having said that, when the purse string tighten it's usually the contractors who are first to go.

... and it happens when the big project is canned, the client has enough implementation to fulfill requirements and also during a take over of one firm by another.

Do you have reference or source for this statement?
It would be interesting for us to quote to others. I remember the time when you worked 3 months in financial services, then you were pass your confirmation (circa 2002).

I spoke to a ex-colleague in a full time job sometime ago (2016) and I was shocked that they had initial promotion of 6 months and then because of difficulties with the line manager, their probation was extended another 4 months. My ex-colleague eventually jack the job, after my contract ended and then became a contractor. The consequences of contract and permanent are not stark as they used to be nowadays.

[bazzawatson]

It's not really that. The OP is trying to compare apples and pears. They two are completely different and there are a host of things to consider. Unfortunately the OP hasn't touched a single one of them so they assumption is they don't have a clue. They are going to struggle with the commute as we see on here a lot and they are the bottom end of the market. We haven't a clue what they do... so the defacto safe advice to give is go perm.

210 is hardly competition for anyone and whether they can secure end to end gigs at that rate is questionable, whatever they do.

Apples and Pears are actually very similar (look at their water content, sugar content, and calorie content per 100g). So that's a nice analogy actually for perm and contracting.

OP, I wouldn't worry about some people trying to tell you that contracting is a world apart to perm work. I was told all that rubbish. It's much the same with a few small differences (the main ones being keeping an eye on the ltd. company and sorting an accountant, after a month or two this will all be second nature). Outside of this it is much the same, trust me. I've been running ltd. companies for 5 years in 2 different countries in order to be a 'contractor'. Most days I feel no different to any other person walking in or out of the building I work in (most of those perm guys seem to have 2 hands, 2 legs, and 1 head just like myself). Look at some peoples post history, and you will see they dedicate their life fighting the good old battle of making sure the two are never mixed or compared... In the real world, you'll find it's much the same (bit less security, bit more money, project based work). Perm staff and contractors very often work on the same teams, 'reporting' into the same project manager, working on the same deliverables.

[malvolio]

Apples and Pears are actually very similar (look at their water content, sugar content, and calorie content per 100g). So that's a nice analogy actually for perm and contracting.

OP, I wouldn't worry about some people trying to tell you that contracting is a world apart to perm work. I was told all that rubbish. It's much the same with a few small differences (the main ones being keeping an eye on the ltd. company and sorting an accountant, after a month or two this will all be second nature). Outside of this it is much the same, trust me. I've been running ltd. companies for 5 years in 2 different countries in order to be a 'contractor'. Most days I feel no different to any other person walking in or out of the building I work in (most of those perm guys seem to have 2 hands, 2 legs, and 1 head just like myself). Look at some peoples post history, and you will see they dedicate their life fighting the good old battle of making sure the two are never mixed or compared... In the real world, you'll find it's much the same (bit less security, bit more money, project based work). Perm staff and contractors very often work on the same teams, 'reporting' into the same project manager, working on the same deliverables.

Hmmm...

Don't really understand contracting, do you. But thanks for contributing.

[mattfx]

OP, I wouldn't worry about some people trying to tell you that contracting is a world apart to perm work.

It's not a world apart, you're right. But it is different and you do have to conduct yourself differently. If you're that much like a perm sounds like you're well inside IR35 there, me ol' mucker.

it is much the same

Mmmmm, no it's not. No performance reviews, no rubbish HR BS, you choose when you want to work. You're also responsibly for not cocking up your work; no-one is going to protect you and in fact, everyone is going to be looking for an excuse to get rid of you if anything.

trust me

You're a random person on the internet who could for all we know be a sockie. Why would we trust you over someone like BrilloPad over there who, has some 90k posts to his name and is a seasoned vet?

OP, you wanted expert advice it doesn't get much more expert than the people who have responded to this thread. Have a look at the responses and weigh up your options, only you can decide.

[northernladuk]

Apples and Pears are actually very similar (look at their water content, sugar content, and calorie content per 100g). So that's a nice analogy actually for perm and contracting..

You seem to be very good at taking similar things and taking them as the same don't you. Similar.. I guess yes.. same? Definitely not.

Perm similar to contracting. Definitely not.... but that does explain why you don't understand when and when not to use the word wage.

It's much the same with a few small differences

Daftest quote I've seen on here in a fair while.

Outside of this it is much the same, trust me

Ahh....Another explanation of why you don't understand the terminologies properly. It's a fundamental issue with not understanding how to be a contractor. It's becoming clear now.

[bazzawatson]

Guys guys guys please

I know it's a lovely idea to think that us 'contractors' are entrepreneurial sorts, privileged to be the directors of our own limited companies, and that makes us a different animal to those 'permies'. When I say in practice they are much the same I mean:

• We still set an alarm in the morning
• We still go to the same place 5 days a week (mostly)
• We still need to attend meetings
• Still need to pop out for lunch

Yes, yes, yes , there is some admin rubbish, so we need to do a Vat return every so often and we don't need to go to the 1 hour performance review thing annually (I know many 'permies' who also haven't done this in years). But we still log on, and slave away to get money into our account one way or another. Dress it up how you like (if that helps you avoid the reality).
And indeed, we are at risk of getting life behind bars for using the word 'wage' or 'employer' (definition of wage from Google - "a fixed regular payment earned for work or services, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis").

Let me put it another way, if an unwitting party were to sit down in your building for a week, would he be able to determine who is a contractor and who is a permie? (without being informed). I know in my environment, he most certainly would not.

[northernladuk]

I've already debunked your Google definition of wage. Why are you still papping on about that.

[bazzawatson]

It's not my defintion, its Googles. (actually it's from Oxford dictionary I believe - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/wage)

Let them know directly you have managed to debunk their definition.. (perhaps tell them you are a contractor while you are at it).

[northernladuk]

It's not my defintion, its Googles. (actually it's from Oxford dictionary I believe - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/wage)

Let them know directly you have managed to debunk their definition.. (perhaps tell them you are a contractor while you are at it).

Erm... Its linked to salary. Read the definition of salary.