That old chestnut - contractors and oncall

[psychocandy]

Maybe not many of your clients - that's either due to the customer having a low opinion of the supplier, or the supplier being a poor negotiator.

Or not being able to afford it?

[TonyF]

If all it means is being on the end of the phone every so often in extreme circumstances, then it's free.

If it means more than that then agree the rate with the client. Time off in lieu is for permanent employees - if I want to take time off, I will take time off when I want it. Taht might be in the middle of teh contract or it might be at the end and before the next one, but it's my choice when I take it thanks.

Pay me for the work I do and I'll deal with the taking breaks at my convenience not theirs.

[billybiro]

If all it means is being on the end of the phone every so often in extreme circumstances, then it's free.

If it means more than that then agree the rate with the client. Time off in lieu is for permanent employees - if I want to take time off, I will take time off when I want it. Taht might be in the middle of teh contract or it might be at the end and before the next one, but it's my choice when I take it thanks.

Pay me for the work I do and I'll deal with the taking breaks at my convenience not theirs.

The problem with this is the whole "thin end of the wedge" aspect. Some clients will start off only getting you on the phone every now and then, but once they realise how easy - and cheap/free - it is, they start to up the ante. Now you're in a pickle as it becomes more difficult to say no since (certainly from the client's perspective), "you didn't have a problem last time".

No, the only correct solution here is to think like a business. As a contractor, you're selling your skills and time. If someone wants to consume either (or both) of those things, they pay.

OP - Decide what rate you want, and by all means take into account your willingness to perform the on-call work as well as the client's likelihood that they will take the mickey over time, or the likelihood of negative repercussions should you refuse, then quote the client that rate. If needed, ask them how frequently they perform work for their clients for free.

[BlasterBates]

If it is occasional no problem in my view. I have done it to keep the client happy. I could have refused at any point, there was no creep or being taken advantage of, it was also restricted to a couple of hours a week to provide cover until the markets closed. If it really starts impacting your private life then you should ask for compensation. In the current company on call is out of office hours, so means being rung up in the middle of the night. I would definitely not do that for free.

[TonyF]

The problem with this is the whole "thin end of the wedge" aspect. Some clients will start off only getting you on the phone every now and then, but once they realise how easy - and cheap/free - it is, they start to up the ante. Now you're in a pickle as it becomes more difficult to say no since (certainly from the client's perspective), "you didn't have a problem last time".

I'm sure that some clients would behave as you describe. I've not had that experience, though - my clients appreciate that they are intruding on my time, and are apologetic for doing it. Which makes for a nice working relationship

[WTFH]

I'm sure that some clients would behave as you describe. I've not had that experience, though - my clients appreciate that they are intruding on my time, and are apologetic for doing it. Which makes for a nice working relationship

Looking at many of Billy's posts, he seems to be unlucky and have the worst clients (or always assumes that they are bad, even if they are not)

[WordIsBond]

No, the only correct solution here is to think like a business. As a contractor, you're selling your skills and time.

As a businessman, you're building relationships that will lead to further business. Sometimes, you go the extra mile to do that. There's more than one way to "think like a business." I have multiple people working for me and still have more than I can do sometimes, and my time has gotten absurdly expensive. I wouldn't pay myself what these people are willing to pay, but I've built relationships where they highly value what I bring to the table, so they pay.

I can afford to give a half hour here or there if it builds those kinds of relationships. Something you might want to consider in some cases.

[psychocandy]

If all it means is being on the end of the phone every so often in extreme circumstances, then it's free.

If it means more than that then agree the rate with the client. Time off in lieu is for permanent employees - if I want to take time off, I will take time off when I want it. Taht might be in the middle of teh contract or it might be at the end and before the next one, but it's my choice when I take it thanks.

Pay me for the work I do and I'll deal with the taking breaks at my convenience not theirs.

TOIL is nothing to do with when you take the time off. OK agreed it is a permie thing and probably not ideal.

But this is how I've done it in the past....

Im taking day on on x day anyway. Normally, would therefore just bill for 4 days that week not 5. However, because client "owes" me a day I bill for 5 days instead.

Not ideal and a lot of trust involved of course. I try not to build up too much for obvious reasons.

[psychocandy]

If it is occasional no problem in my view. I have done it to keep the client happy. I could have refused at any point, there was no creep or being taken advantage of, it was also restricted to a couple of hours a week to provide cover until the markets closed. If it really starts impacting your private life then you should ask for compensation. In the current company on call is out of office hours, so means being rung up in the middle of the night. I would definitely not do that for free.

To be fair, I've never been called for the times I have helped out so its not high volume at all.

Nice little earner for the permies because the rate for them is good- and they dont get called. But on top of a really crap salary.

[psychocandy]

As a businessman, you're building relationships that will lead to further business. Sometimes, you go the extra mile to do that. There's more than one way to "think like a business." I have multiple people working for me and still have more than I can do sometimes, and my time has gotten absurdly expensive. I wouldn't pay myself what these people are willing to pay, but I've built relationships where they highly value what I bring to the table, so they pay.

I can afford to give a half hour here or there if it builds those kinds of relationships. Something you might want to consider in some cases.

I agree. Your already at the client being paid a premium (as you should be). When they need help should you then screw them with a huge rate for being on-call? Not sure if its ever going to go down that well expecting 3x what the permies get.

Yes sure you're day rate may be 3x permie salary but clients dont see it that way. All they'll see is the greedy contractor screwing them for more money. At times, dependent on the client, I have done it for same rate as the permies get. Maybe I shouldn't but I see it more as an added service at cost price which increase my chances of an extension. Especailly if the on call is piss easy.