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A Penny for Your Thoughts - What Would You Do?

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    #21
    Originally posted by fiisch View Post
    I thought the additional dots conveyed a tongue in cheek reply quite well........

    I know IR35 is a contentious issue, but you don't have to run quite so scared!
    I'm not scared, I'm concerned you've got it so very wrong and I keep mentioning it because the next post you get it wrong again.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by fiisch View Post
      Thank you for the replies. The fact my current job is so flexible and well paid - especially as I'm not in London every day - makes it a very difficult decision.

      Current warchest is nil (I used it to pay down the mortgage/invest in long-term S&S ISA) so I do not have any contingency if a contract wasn't immediately forthcoming.

      IR35 does not apply to my sector - work in Private Sector, currently I understand it is applicable public sector contractors only, although this may change (although the opinions I have gleaned seem to think it would force talent overseas/make it difficult for domestic companies to compete so unlikely to extend to private sector). I do appreciate there is a test of is a contractor truly an independent contractor, or a glorified employee, but obviously for the first six months of my current employ I was very much a consultant hired for my specialised knowledge to provide expertise to my client, and in no way working for a boss or with a longer-term intention of being made permanent...............

      Accountancy firm I use is somewhat large but specialise in contractor accounts (this is pretty much all they do).

      As I expected, opinions on here are different from family (none of whom have worked or have a particularly good understanding of the contract market), so has given me balance.

      Of course the third option - albeit slightly unethical - could be to secure another similar permanent position, and then seek out contract roles as the clock ticks down on my notice, but I am loathed to mess companies around as you never know when you'll encounter someone again...!
      If your warchest is nil I would seriously consider whether or not now is a good time to go contracting. If you do hand your notice in at the end of this month and you have to work out your full notice you will be coming onto the market in November. The end of the year traditionally isn't one of the best times to be looking for a contract. Recruiters are not really going to start looking for you / considering you for roles until you are very close to the end of your notice period. This is because they want someone available now / very soon, and you will be competing against a lot of other potential candidates. Also, will you be able to save enough during your notice period to grow your warchest to survive for up to 6+months?

      The other issue is IR35, this doesn't just affect the public sector. You may be thinking about how it is applied, and currently all(ish) contracts in the public sector are assumed to be inside of IR35, this is what is expected to be rolled to the private sector too. However, it can affect anyone. This is why you should get your contracts reviewed, working practices etc. When someone commented earlier about looking at your IR35 status, it was probably because you went from a contract role to a permanent role, at the same company. If this was effectively the same position, without any changes in working practices, you would have been inside IR35 for your contract role. There are IR35 resources on the right ----->

      Hope this helps.

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by fiisch View Post

        IR35 does not apply to my sector - work in Private Sector, currently I understand it is applicable public sector contractors only, although this may change
        I read this and actually heard the eye roll and groan from NLUK

        But as he said you really need to understand what IR35.
        IR35 existc for the Public AND Private sectors. It is applied differently for each and you REALLY need to be aware of this.

        Comment


          #24
          Stay where you are. Do you job and when you are not busy study and learn new things. Keep doing it until the gravy train comes to an end and then go contracting with you experience and new qualifications.
          "He's actually ripped" - Jared Padalecki

          https://youtu.be/l-PUnsCL590?list=PL...dNeCyi9a&t=615

          Comment


            #25
            Find a contract, if starts in 2 weeks tell current client you are leaving in 2 weeks or immediately if they prefer

            When they say 3 months notice, inform them you have no penelty clause, it just says 3 months notice and to poke it

            Start new contract

            Top tip
            Hand in 2 week notice in payday

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by fiisch View Post
              I thought the additional dots conveyed a tongue in cheek reply quite well........

              I know IR35 is a contentious issue, but you don't have to run quite so scared!
              IR35 isn't contentious - the legislation has been around for a long time, affecting work in both the public and private sectors.

              Having a good understanding of IR35 is vital if you are going to be working for yourself, though, and your posts where you have said that it doesn't apply to your industry and then to the entire private sector belie ignorance or trolling.

              Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
              I'm not fat, I'm just fluffy.

              Comment


                #27
                Thanks again - certainly given me food for thought. When I posted this I was leaning towards chucking in my notice on Friday, whereas this has perhaps given me some perspective and I'm now wavering back somewhere in the middle. I'm now read on IR35, and have decided I definitely want to opt out. I think I may have also neglected to mention that for my current company my contract role was very different to my permanent job which I applied for and interviewed separately....................

                I think on the basis of salary, security and general happiness at work alone, I'd stay put. If I factor in career satisfaction and longer term aspirations, that is where I start to waver - I've already decided progression is highly unlikely. A colleague has been waiting three years to start his BCS despite repeated badgering, and I think there is a sizeable risk that the project I am on will eventually be canned due to several so-far insurmountable issues (which are outside of my sphere of influence I'd hasten to add!).

                I'm reluctant to shaft my current company as despite the problems, I'm grateful for the job and remember they offered me a job where other companies may have left me in limbo. I'm aware notice periods are there to be negotiated, but obviously it's not a conversation I can have until I'm ready to pull the trigger.

                If I do decide to take the plunge (and that's a mighty big if):

                1). Is there such a thing as a contract which will wait 3 months for a permie to complete his notice? Is it worth asking recruitment agents, or am I urinating in the wind? I would say whilst I've some good window dressing on my CV in terms of industry specific/BA qualifications, I'm not an out-and-out specialist in any one particular software/market etc., which makes me think why would a potential client wait for me when similar alternatives will be available almost immediately.

                2). Realistically, what is the likelihood of the scope of IR35 being extended in the foreseeable future?*

                *I appreciate this is a very loaded question, and may amount to how long is a piece of string, but what's the word currently? Is it widely expected (as one poster put) to be extended to all contract workers in the next budget, or is this doom-mongering and wider implications will make it impossible for the government to implement?

                Comment


                  #28
                  IR35 comments aside, my personal thoughts are:

                  I would be very surprised that a contract role via an agency would be willing to wait for notice period to be served. As others have said / implied, there is so much supply out there, that someone immediately available will get a look in.

                  Given the level of supply, it would be highly risky to hand in notice and serve it (so as not to burn bridges) in the hope of applying and securing a role close to your end date.
                  It's even more riskier given that you have no warchest.

                  I think that your best hope of having your cake and eating it would be to see if anyone in your network of contacts has any sniff of an opening.
                  Recommendations go a long way, and would get your foot in the door for further discussions, and if you impress, the willingness to wait for you.

                  FYI - I'm a contract BA living and working in London. I have only been contracting for 7 months, having been a permie for 17 years (Testing and BA roles across a couple of companies), and made redundant in November last year.
                  Looking for work in Nov / Dec was soul destroying, but I consider myself very lucky to have secured a contract via an agency (after many failed applications).
                  My second contract was obtained via a friend, in similar circumstances I described before - I got offered a last minute extension by first contract, and after a bit of negotiation, was able to agree a reduced extension to finish off the project, and then move onto the new contract immediately after.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by fiisch View Post
                    I'm now read on IR35, and have decided I definitely want to opt out.
                    For ****s sake.

                    I think I may have also neglected to mention that for my current company my contract role was very different to my permanent job which I applied for and interviewed separately....................
                    Er.. Yes you did.

                    If I do decide to take the plunge (and that's a mighty big if):

                    1). Is there such a thing as a contract which will wait 3 months for a permie to complete his notice? Is it worth asking recruitment agents, or am I urinating in the wind? I would say whilst I've some good window dressing on my CV in terms of industry specific/BA qualifications, I'm not an out-and-out specialist in any one particular software/market etc., which makes me think why would a potential client wait for me when similar alternatives will be available almost immediately.
                    Assume 'Not a chance' and if it does happen you've struck lucky. Clients want contractors in fast to fulfill a need. There are far too many contractors out there to bother waiting for some noob out of perm land.
                    2). Realistically, what is the likelihood of the scope of IR35 being extended in the foreseeable future?*
                    You are opting out so what does it matter.
                    Assume it will and if it doesn't you're golden.
                    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by fiisch View Post
                      Background
                      I am 31, a Business Analyst for five years in the insurance industry. In January 2017, I inadvertently fell into contracting - I had applied for a job in my hometown, had 3 interviews, only to be offered the job on a permanent basis before it was retracted due to internal restructuring. They then offered me the role on a contract basis, with a view to making me permanent six months later. They were true to their word, although by this time I was tempted to stay contracting (a cynic might suggest at this point I'd seen all the upsides to contracting with none of the downside!). However, they persuaded me to switch to PAYE with a very attractive offer (circa £60k) - a key factor in my decision was the security as we'd just had our first child.

                      Fast forward a year, and I am having second thoughts as to whether I made the correct decision....

                      Current Position
                      My current, permanent contract carries a three month notice period, which makes finding a contract role very difficult without taking the plunge. The current job is massively convenient - 5 minute commute each way, it fits neatly around childcare arrangements, the people are nice, the package is extremely competitive, especially given that I do not have London commuting costs. Certainly, I do not want to burn any bridges by forcing their hand with notices etc.

                      However, the job is incredibly boring. The workload is much too light (I feel this is not just me that is suffering from this problem), and the senior management seem reluctant to pass on responsibility/tasks, which makes for a busy management team with very little time for the HR touchy-feely stuff (1-2-1s, L&D etc.). I've asked several times about studying for additional qualifications but have been repeatedly fobbed off. I've asked about extra work and tried to take the initiative, but this doesn't seem to work for any period of time. I returned to work after two days off today and was caught up on emails and outstanding tasks before 9am...

                      The Dilemma
                      My wife, and indeed family that I've spoken to about this, think I should return to contracting. I still have the limited company in place (albeit in a non-trading status) and I like a challenge. In my career, where I've stagnated in a role or felt that there is no development, I've moved on, and I am beginning to feel these same feelings. My longest role to date is two and a half years, but typically I've averaged about 18 months in each job. Finding another permanent role on an equivalent salary is extremely difficult (at best I could probably get a similar net take home when factoring in commuting costs), and I'm seriously toying with the idea of handing my notice in and then attacking the contract market as the clock runs down. This is somewhat of a high risk strategy, especially given that I do not have much in the way of savings to fall back on.

                      The Question(s)
                      - Some recruiters have flatly informed me I will not get a contract with a three month notice, while others have mooted that it may be possible for certain vacancies. I suspect the former is true, but has anyone managed to get a contract role before completing a lengthy notice period?
                      - What would you do in this situation? Would you stay put, or roll the dice and look to go contracting?
                      - The market seems incredibly buoyant currently - is it madness to hand in my notice without having another job lined up?
                      - Some outgoing contractors at my current place of employment (weirdly, nearly all the contractors I work with turn down the offers of renewal...!) mentioned a possible change to legislation in how limited companies are being taxed from October this year. Is this doom-mongering, or is there some truth to the rumour - I cannot find anything on the Internet on this? (I'm aware of IR35 changes, but does not apply to my industry).

                      My current position is highly convenient, but I am not feeling fulfilled in my career, and fancy a fresh challenge. I do miss working in London, although not so much the daily commute. I suspect I would be looking at day rates of £400-450p/d, which at least initially might feel like a substantial pay rise, when you take all the factors into play (e.g.: current 22% pension, 25 days holiday, time between contracts, probable future paternity leave in the next 2 years etc....) is perhaps less so. However, I do think ultimately we would be better off.

                      I'm keen to get the views of people in the market currently, as I'm in a real dilemma. I'm reluctant to give up a cushy number, but at the same time I am ambitious and don't feel like there is much scope for progression in my current role.

                      Stick or twist?! What would you do.....?
                      You need to address how you are going to be living and working away from home with a 'young child' and how much this will pull on you.

                      When I went contracting my kids were 6 and 4. Have to be honest and say most Mondays driving 160 miles away had me with tears in my eyes. I worked away from home for 5 years as there were no contracts I could pick up locally. Even if you do not have to stay away, how long a commute would you have with different contracts? How long will your day be and will the kids be in bed when you leave for work and in bed when you get back?

                      I missed a lot of their growing up and now Im retired, I realise I will never get that time back. I think of all the parent days, sports days, christmas shows etc I missed and it all hurts.

                      Yes, the money was great. My kids got lots of stuff and I still love them to bits. But the lost time still rankles.

                      Contracting is good and gives a great lifestyle but my advice to people asking me whether they should try contracting was always the same: Have you got young kiddies, how much would you miss them when you are working away?

                      Just saying.
                      Last edited by washed up contractor; 18 July 2018, 21:02.

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