Crystal Umbrella Gone Bust

[northernladuk]

probably like most people they only read the "general" part of this site

Is that true? That's a scary thought. I've always avoided the General pages when I've got specific questions whatever board I've used.. but guess that's because I've been on forums for one thing and another right from the days of dialup.

[WilliamAC1]

Gotta say I'm very surprised this thread is so quiet with (allegedly) 10k contractors from Crystal let alone the Atlantic Umbrella crowds being affected by this.

There must be new contracts flying around all over the place for a start let alone questions about payments, pensions and all the unknowns that come with changing employers.

And then are the things we don't know and didn't think about. What about finance? Surely they are all now going to have issues trying to get mortgages, loans and any other finance with their new employer only being a few months old?

Just hope it's quiet because it's gone OK.

I am also surprised as well. Also nothing out there when searching the internet apart from this thread

As someone who is "impacted" by this (although not financially) the issue we have is a dearth of any information, only that Pendragon Consulting have been "selected" to take over. From what I can see they are a newly formed company with no history staffed by many of the same people...…… Read into that what you will.

I've got the agency to hold onto payments from my client whilst I sort out another umbrella company which they are happy to do.

It seems like things were going belly up for a period, as my recent extension contract referred to Pendragon Consulting T/A Crystal Umbrella (which I have to say I didn't pick up when signing as done whilst on holiday so wasn't paying attention - will be checking in the future) back at the beginning of Nov. As I don't have a contract of employment with Pendragon, then this contract as far as I am concerned, is invalid as they didn't have the right to represent me. It does simplify things as no notice and Agency not going to pay over etc and I don't need immediate access to funds to live whilst I sort out something else.

[northernladuk]

I am also surprised as well. Also nothing out there when searching the internet apart from this thread

As someone who is "impacted" by this (although not financially) the issue we have is a dearth of any information, only that Pendragon Consulting have been "selected" to take over. From what I can see they are a newly formed company with no history staffed by many of the same people...…… Read into that what you will.

I've got the agency to hold onto payments from my client whilst I sort out another umbrella company which they are happy to do.

It seems like things were going belly up for a period, as my recent extension contract referred to Pendragon Consulting T/A Crystal Umbrella (which I have to say I didn't pick up when signing as done whilst on holiday so wasn't paying attention - will be checking in the future) back at the beginning of Nov. As I don't have a contract of employment with Pendragon, then this contract as far as I am concerned, is invalid as they didn't have the right to represent me. It does simplify things as no notice and Agency not going to pay over etc and I don't need immediate access to funds to live whilst I sort out something else.

Have you had a chance to speak to Lucy and CU about all this yet? She'll be able to give some advice and they are as good an option to chose going forward. I've used them and they were spot on.

[WilliamAC1]

Have you had a chance to speak to Lucy and CU about all this yet? She'll be able to give some advice and they are as good an option to chose going forward. I've used them and they were spot on.

I haven't yet due to workload etc but have been researching in the evening. They do look pretty sound from my research to date so will try and catch up when things are a little quieter over next couple of days.

[killingtime]

They're not returning emails.

I called the 0800 Crystal number today and asked if I was still an employee. The chap on the phone told me Crystal had now been liquidated. So I asked whether I was still going to be paid at the end of the week. 'Yes provided you sign up with Pendragon. People are being Tupe'd over to Pendragon'.

The VL was only anounced early this week. Can it complete that fast?

Reading the new electronic contract though...seems to be a brand new contract. You have to supply all the forms of ID and bank details again, and write to nest again to opt out of pension contributions. Oh, and the agency has to set up a new contract. I can't see that happening in a week.

Now I've had a chance to read the new contract I'll give them another call and see what the deal really is.

Still many unanswered questions. Did CU return agency money if it wan't paid to contractors, or just move it to Pendragon? These are the only two scenarios that will result in contractors being paid under Pendragon.

[northernladuk]

They're not returning emails.

I called the 0800 Crystal number today and asked if I was still an employee. The chap on the phone told me Crystal had now been liquidated. So I asked whether I was still going to be paid at the end of the week. 'Yes provided you sign up with Pendragon. People are being Tupe'd over to Pendragon'.

The VL was only anounced early this week. Can it complete that fast?

Reading the new electronic contract though...seems to be a brand new contract. You have to supply all the forms of ID and bank details again, and write to nest again to opt out of pension contributions. Oh, and the agency has to set up a new contract. I can't see that happening in a week.

Now I've had a chance to read the new contract I'll give them another call and see what the deal really is.

Still many unanswered questions. Did CU return agency money if it wan't paid to contractors, or just move it to Pendragon? These are the only two scenarios that will result in contractors being paid under Pendragon.

There is so much wrong with this. Firstly Cryatal isn't being liquidated. It's a trading name of Aquabubble r Unitum. Your old contract should say something about one of those two shouldn't it? Can you have a contract with a trading name without mentioning the legal entity?

Pendragon are holding the new Crystal aren't they? The website says it is. So exactly who is your contract going to be with? Crystal or Pendragon? Very confusing.

You can't just sign up again can you. You must be TUPE'd. If you sign up again what happens to your pensions and the like? Have you lost them?

Why on earth would you sign a new contract with all this crap going on. Looks like you've got the perfect chance to sack them off and get a decent brolly.

All you need to ask is what happens to the money you are owed. Pendragon is brand new. I'd hate to think what their cash flow is like.

I'd also check with your agent or client to make sure Pendragon aren't trying to put a new upper contract or whatever with them as well.

[killingtime]

OK, back to basics.

Just looked at my contract of employment. It's with:

Crystal Umbrella Ltd, Unitum House, 1 The Chase, John Tate Road, Hertford, Herts. SG13 7NN

So that's tihis company: CRYSTAL UMBRELLA LIMITED - Overview (free company information from Companies House)

Which is still trading at present.

The email that went out to CU employees reads:

It is with sincere regret that I write to inform you, that Unitum Operations is entering into voluntary liquidation along with its brand Crystal Umbrella.
To minimise the impact, we have successfully concluded negotiations with Pendragon Consultancy Ltd who have agreed and is prepared to offer you the same terms and conditions of employment as your existing employment contract.
......

It doesn't help that there's a brand with the same name as a limited company.

So it's not Crystal Umbrella Ltd that's going into VL, but 'Unitum Operations'

By 'Unitum Operations' I assume they mean Unitum Operations Ltd:

UNITUM OPERATIONS LTD - Overview (free company information from Companies House)

And that company is still active also.

Check if a company is being liquidated or in provisional liquidation - GOV.UK

Crystal Umbrella Ltd is not in liquidation.
Unitum Operations Ltd is not in liquidation.

As of Thurs 29 Nov 2018.

I'm confused. I'll make another call tomorrow.

--EDIT--

If you look at the name changes on the c.house links above, they're doing something odd with the names.

Unitum Operations Ltd used to be Crystal Umbrella Limited up until 11 Apr 2013
Crystal Umbrella Limited used to be New Company Crystal Limited up until 11 Apr 2013

So they're keeping a name but changing company numbers.

You'd have to look at the date on your contract then to work out which company actually employs you. My employment contract didn't show the company number, only a name.

There is something in my contract definitions:

Crystal Umbrella is a trading name of Aqua Bubble Limited, a company incorporated in England and Wales under company number (07388678)

But I'm not employed by Aqua Bubble Limited or Crystal Umbrella, but Crystal Umbrella Limited which is another company entirely (or one of two companies depending on the date).

[northernladuk]

So you aren't being TUPE'd over? You are just invited to sign up with Pendragon? Doesn't that mean you've been made redundant?

Sounds like the perfect opportunity to get out if you aren't losing anything.

What happens if you don't sign up with them?

The crystal mobile site says they have over 50K contractors. Their phones must be ringing off the hook with 50k people dazed and confused... Or maybe there aren't 50k really...

[killingtime]

So you aren't being TUPE'd over? You are just invited to sign up with Pendragon? Doesn't that mean you've been made redundant?

The guy I spoke to today said TUPE'd over. But that appears to be rubbish. Looking at the Pendragon contract....there's nothing in there about transferring any pensions over.....bit of a giveaway really. Just info about enrolling you in a pension. The standard pension stuff you get when you sign up to a new umbrella.

TUPE regs are very precise. Transfer of pension, consultations etc. None of that's happened unless you count an email as the consultation.

Redundant; I'll find out tomorrow.

I could just leave, but they have two weeks of my money.

It's all really odd. No notice of redundancy (there are rules around this stuff). No appointed administrator. No insolvency notice. No VL notice on the CH website. And they're acting on the phone today as if everything will return to normal if you sign up with Pendragon.

It's almost as if the owners of Crystal just up and sold the guts of Crystal to Pendragon so it could continue where Crystal left off. I wonder what the structure is like between Pendragon and Crystal.

[NotAllThere]

mods can move this where they like

Yeah, thanks.

...Interesting to see Mr Alan Stuart Little of Unitum was also a director of Pendragon Client Account Limited 09856409 which has passed to MS JANET DE-HAVILLAND. What is interesting is there is ANOTHER MS JANET DE-HAVILLAND who has a separate entry showing Pendragon Consultancy (11330591). Seems hell of a coincidence. The Client account finances seem to be following a very similar downward slope that Unitum is. Dunno how relevant that is but scares the crap outta me.

I'm really not smart enough to understand this big business stuff and all the multiple companies and the like so could be completely wrong but in my little world all that looks really bad to me. Anyone know more about this stuff and can elaborate?

I'm an experienced reader of Private Eye's reports on company shenaningans What i can say from that is - it smells dodgy.

Jeesh. Another reason not to use Brollies.

OTOH it seems Lucy is a very good reason to use them!