Advice sought.. Advice sought..
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  1. #1

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    Hi
    I'm looking for a spot advice from other contractors, I would be very grateful for any offered.

    I've enjoyed a long term contract with a one client for 3 years. Throughout that time I have completed a number of specific development (coding) IT projects. I've generally been very happy there, have kept out of politics, got the job done and been regarded as such. Yes, I've been very lucky.

    Without going into too much detail, the company in question (a retail bank), has recently undergone a massive organisation change. The relevant point is that middle managers are being mostly made redundant, with the work being done by lower grade employees relying on new organisational processes to ensure business service is maintained. The middle manager I've reported to for the last year or so has always been upfront with me and we've assured each other that if one part wishes to end the engagement more than standard notice will be given. However, it's clear he's role is under threat.

    A few days ago an immediate colleague took me to one side and informed me that this manager had told her that he was thinking of not renewing my contract and could she (my colleague do my role). When I discovered this I was, to be honest, shocked and disappointed as I thought I had a good working relationship with this manager. I confronted said manager, and he denied there was intention not to renew, but stopped short of denying what he had said.

    Two days later, I was taken to one side by another manager (main manager has gone on holiday) and told there was every intention of a renewal being offered (Late Aug). Obviously nothing will be written down (as always, until last minute with renewals).

    So I'm getting very mixed messages with regard to the client's intention to renew. Obviously, I will assume the worst and start looking immediately, and in response to what I was told by mgr 1, I've been honest and said I will have to assume the worst until I have written confirmation.

    However as we know, looking for other roles is very time consuming and as I'm not a spring chicken the number of suitable roles isn't what it once was. I'm cautious about over-reacting to tittle-tattle.

    One other aspect, the manager wanted me to help tech interview a candidate for the team recently. I said I was happy to, now they've decided I shouldn't be involved. The candidate is strangely not suitable for the advertised role, but is for the specific project I've been working on recently, a new system which has been received very well by the business.

    So, my question is, should I really assume the worst, or just ignore it? My gut feeling is the axe is falling, tbh, given they've recruiting a perm onto the team (it was a done deal, a referral). Should I try and force their had and ask for a renewal now, or indicate I may by late Aug be unable to renew (due hopefully having found something else). I'm also not keen on sticking around and suffering a death by a thousand cuts whilst I'm instructed to train up a perm replacement, yes, professional pride is kicking in there I guess. Perhaps I'm at fault for feeling like that?

    I just wish they'd be honest and come clean with their intentions so both parties know where they stand.

    A conversation about going perm was underway earlier in the year, but now I've been told they have no headcount (despite the recruitment underway being for a perm?).

    Sorry for the long post, but would appreciate a second opinion. It just seems a confusing mess to me.

    D.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkings View Post
    The middle manager I've reported to for the last year or so has always been upfront with me and we've assured each other that if one part wishes to end the engagement more than standard notice will be given. However, it's clear he's role is under threat.
    It's not his call to give you that. At the end of the day you are a supplier to a client. I'm thinking this is what's going to be wrong with this thread as it progresses.

    Are you through an agent by the way?
    A few days ago an immediate colleague took me to one side and informed me that this manager had told her that he was thinking of not renewing my contract and could she (my colleague do my role). When I discovered this I was, to be honest, shocked and disappointed as I thought I had a good working relationship with this manager. I confronted said manager, and he denied there was intention not to renew, but stopped short of denying what he had said.
    Yup, thought this is the way it would go. As I said it might be good but you've got to remember what you are to them. You can't rely on buddying up and hope they'll see you right. Poor move confronting him though IMO. Cause waves and they can bin you on the spot if they want.
    Two days later, I was taken to one side by another manager (main manager has gone on holiday) and told there was every intention of a renewal being offered (Late Aug). Obviously nothing will be written down (as always, until last minute with renewals).
    You've nothing until it's on paper. Bit frustrating when they can't get their story straight but assume you are gone until you get the paperwork and you shouldn't be disappointed.
    So I'm getting very mixed messages with regard to the client's intention to renew. Obviously, I will assume the worst and start looking immediately, and in response to what I was told by mgr 1, I've been honest and said I will have to assume the worst until I have written confirmation.
    Correct... although remember. These guys are NOT your managers. They are your client. Just a pedantic point.
    However as we know, looking for other roles is very time consuming and as I'm not a spring chicken the number of suitable roles isn't what it once was. I'm cautious about over-reacting to tittle-tattle.
    Your call. If it's too much effort to protect your income then don't do it.
    One other aspect, the manager wanted me to help tech interview a candidate for the team recently. I said I was happy to, now they've decided I shouldn't be involved. The candidate is strangely not suitable for the advertised role, but is for the specific project I've been working on recently, a new system which has been received very well by the business.
    Is this relevant?
    So, my question is, should I really assume the worst, or just ignore it? My gut feeling is the axe is falling, tbh, given they've recruiting a perm onto the team (it was a done deal, a referral). Should I try and force their had and ask for a renewal now, or indicate I may by late Aug be unable to renew (due hopefully having found something else). I'm also not keen on sticking around and suffering a death by a thousand cuts whilst I'm instructed to train up a perm replacement, yes, professional pride is kicking in there I guess. Perhaps I'm at fault for feeling like that?
    The only answer they will have a this point is no so best not. If they want you they want you, if they don't they don't. You are along for the ride now.
    I just wish they'd be honest and come clean with their intentions so both parties know where they stand.
    Nothing to do with being honest. They probably don't know at this point.
    A conversation about going perm was underway earlier in the year, but now I've been told they have no headcount (despite the recruitment underway being for a perm?).

    Sorry for the long post, but would appreciate a second opinion. It just seems a confusing mess to me.
    IMO you've gotten too cosy and just need to grow some. This is standard fare in contracting, it's just the way we work. We are needed until we aren't. Some clients will handle it well, some won't.

    You just have to suck it up, deliver until either the paperwork lands on your desk or you are shown the door.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 14th July 2019 at 18:12.
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  3. #3

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    One other aspect, the manager wanted me to help tech interview a candidate for the team recently
    Uh-Oh, IR35

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blue Plymouth View Post
    Uh-Oh, IR35
    uh-oh. frightened permietractor.


    See You Next Tuesday

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    3 years.
    Good money earned.
    Coming to an end.

    What's the issue here?

    Move on with a smile. That's my advice.
    See You Next Tuesday

  6. #6

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    Never read your long rabbling post, but appears your face does not fit anymore - get over it and stop whining


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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    3 years.
    Good money earned.
    Coming to an end.

    What's the issue here?

    Move on with a smile. That's my advice.
    The issue is, if I'm honest with myself, is this. I've become a permitractor; and it feels like my employer is plotting to fire me.

    I'm glad this is is happened in a way. Wake-up call. I've slowly, almost without realising, started to regard myself as a perm and to be entitled to be treated as such.

    Ironically, if I had been a perm I'd have been out a long time ago in one of the three brutal culls which have all occured during my contracts there.

    Appreciate the comments all. Helpful.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    uh-oh. frightened permietractor.


    You're right. Deep down, I've become a contractor who thinks like a perm.

    Time to go.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    It's not his call to give you that. At the end of the day you are a supplier to a client. I'm thinking this is what's going to be wrong with this thread as it progresses.

    Are you through an agent by the way?

    Yup, thought this is the way it would go. As I said it might be good but you've got to remember what you are to them. You can't rely on buddying up and hope they'll see you right. Poor move confronting him though IMO. Cause waves and they can bin you on the spot if they want.

    You've nothing until it's on paper. Bit frustrating when they can't get their story straight but assume you are gone until you get the paperwork and you shouldn't be disappointed.

    Correct... although remember. These guys are NOT your managers. They are your client. Just a pedantic point.

    Your call. If it's too much effort to protect your income then don't do it.

    Is this relevant?


    The only answer they will have a this point is no so best not. If they want you they want you, if they don't they don't. You are along for the ride now.

    Nothing to do with being honest. They probably don't know at this point.


    IMO you've gotten too cosy and just need to grow some. This is standard fare in contracting, it's just the way we work. We are needed until we aren't. Some clients will handle it well, some won't.

    You just have to suck it up, deliver until either the paperwork lands on your desk or you are shown the door.
    Thanks. Think you're right on a few fronts there.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkings View Post
    Hi
    I'm looking for a spot advice from other contractors, I would be very grateful for any offered.

    I've enjoyed a long term contract with a one client for 3 years. Throughout that time I have completed a number of specific development (coding) IT projects. I've generally been very happy there, have kept out of politics, got the job done and been regarded as such. Yes, I've been very lucky.

    Without going into too much detail, the company in question (a retail bank), has recently undergone a massive organisation change. The relevant point is that middle managers are being mostly made redundant, with the work being done by lower grade employees relying on new organisational processes to ensure business service is maintained. The middle manager I've reported to for the last year or so has always been upfront with me and we've assured each other that if one part wishes to end the engagement more than standard notice will be given. However, it's clear he's role is under threat.

    A few days ago an immediate colleague took me to one side and informed me that this manager had told her that he was thinking of not renewing my contract and could she (my colleague do my role). When I discovered this I was, to be honest, shocked and disappointed as I thought I had a good working relationship with this manager. I confronted said manager, and he denied there was intention not to renew, but stopped short of denying what he had said.

    Two days later, I was taken to one side by another manager (main manager has gone on holiday) and told there was every intention of a renewal being offered (Late Aug). Obviously nothing will be written down (as always, until last minute with renewals).

    So I'm getting very mixed messages with regard to the client's intention to renew. Obviously, I will assume the worst and start looking immediately, and in response to what I was told by mgr 1, I've been honest and said I will have to assume the worst until I have written confirmation.

    However as we know, looking for other roles is very time consuming and as I'm not a spring chicken the number of suitable roles isn't what it once was. I'm cautious about over-reacting to tittle-tattle.

    One other aspect, the manager wanted me to help tech interview a candidate for the team recently. I said I was happy to, now they've decided I shouldn't be involved. The candidate is strangely not suitable for the advertised role, but is for the specific project I've been working on recently, a new system which has been received very well by the business.

    So, my question is, should I really assume the worst, or just ignore it? My gut feeling is the axe is falling, tbh, given they've recruiting a perm onto the team (it was a done deal, a referral). Should I try and force their had and ask for a renewal now, or indicate I may by late Aug be unable to renew (due hopefully having found something else). I'm also not keen on sticking around and suffering a death by a thousand cuts whilst I'm instructed to train up a perm replacement, yes, professional pride is kicking in there I guess. Perhaps I'm at fault for feeling like that?

    I just wish they'd be honest and come clean with their intentions so both parties know where they stand.

    A conversation about going perm was underway earlier in the year, but now I've been told they have no headcount (despite the recruitment underway being for a perm?).

    Sorry for the long post, but would appreciate a second opinion. It just seems a confusing mess to me.

    D.
    You need to leave immediately and find a new role.

    If in same role for 3 years at a bank you will be a sitting duck for contract re-assessment.

    The known big permietractor employers - RBS and LloydsTSB will keep the pretence going for as long as they can and then one morning between now and christmas everyone will be let go at the same time because they know it will be the best way to reemploy people at the lowest cost.

    don’t wait get your CV updated today and make yourself available.

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