Walk away from "safe" contract to perm startup without immediate progression?

[Hawkings]

My contractor friends,

I'm in the very lucky position of being offered an extension in a very long running contract - but have received an offer of a perm role at a startup in an emerging tech space I have some skills I and am keen on moving into. I started looking around mindful of how the market is likely to go in 2020.

I've been ticking over for a while on idle in the contract and become bored. The startup offers many of the elements I seek in a perm role.

However, it would - initially at least, apparently, mean reporting to someone who is a contract hire. I've been told ,all being well, that role will be mine, and more beyond.

Whilst the person making these remarks is credible and trustworthy (the company owner) I have to second think it. If I give up my contract role for a 35% pay cut (at least) and find myself dead ended by a contractor in a safe steady contract, I will mentally check-out very quickly.

This boils down to assessing how important an immediate title/role jump is when moving from contract to perm (i.e compensating for pay drop) and if should not accept a role which doesn't immediately offer such.

Any other perspectives you guys can bring on this would be appreciated greatly?!

Cheers.

[northernladuk]

So much for

The issue is, if I'm honest with myself, is this. I've become a permitractor; and it feels like my employer is plotting to fire me.

I'm glad this is is happened in a way. Wake-up call. I've slowly, almost without realising, started to regard myself as a perm and to be entitled to be treated as such.

Ironically, if I had been a perm I'd have been out a long time ago in one of the three brutal culls which have all occured during my contracts there.

Appreciate the comments all. Helpful.

You're right. Deep down, I've become a contractor who thinks like a perm.

Time to go.

And all the advice leading you to this conclusion..... Back to your employer desk and carry on perma-tracting with you.

P.S. April 2020 coming up. Inside determination and 3 years worth of disguised permiedon. Hate to think about the back taxes HMRC can come after you for.. but get your head down and don't worry about it. Your contract and attitude to it are far from 'safe'

[northernladuk]

Any other perspectives you guys can bring on this would be appreciated greatly?!

Couple of thoughts for you to consider from me...

You've got problems coming up in April and much earlier, so this safe gig could possibly evaporate and/or go badly wrong depending on determination very soon.

You shouldn't be falling in love with gigs. Be prepared to drop it and move on to something else, everything is short term.. you need to start thinking like a contractor

What's the worst that can happen if you take this gig? You don't like it and leave in which case it's just been a low paid temp gig for a short while and you come back contracting, possibly with extra skills. It's not the end of the world to take a perm gig.

If you've been working 3 years you should have a substantial warchest so 6 months at a percentage less to try something new shouldn't be a problem. That's the point of contracting and earning a good chunk. The flexibility to take chances and the like.

You've got leave this gig anyway for a lot of reasons, so JFDI.

Any of them help?

[Hawkings]

So much for





And all the advice leading you to this conclusion..... Back to your employer desk and carry on perma-tracting with you.

P.S. April 2020 coming up. Inside determination and 3 years worth of disguised permiedon. Hate to think about the back taxes HMRC can come after you for.. but get your head down and don't worry about it. Your contract and attitude to it are far from 'safe'

Err., hang-on Sir. I'm asking for perspectives. I haven't made a decision. But for your info, I am leaning towards taking it and that thread was a contributing factor. But thanks for taking the time to highlight a possible "contradiction"!!

[northernladuk]

Err., hang-on Sir. I'm asking for perspectives. I haven't made a decision. But for your info, I am leaning towards taking it and that thread was a contributing factor. But thanks for taking the time to highlight a possible "contradiction"!!

If you do go down the start up route go in with your eyes wide open. They can be exciting but 80%+ of them will fail. They are also a bit of a mare regarding remuneration and the like as they tend not to have any money to start with.

The rewards, if they do take off and you are there from the start, can be very good though.

There are a couple of threads about startups on here, one example is below. It's about contracting but I think a lot of the advice/situations could apply to perm in general. Didn't read it all so it that thread doesn't mention it.. negotiate hard for a good deal as you are taking a risk and get everything in writing. Don't think you are all buddies and working together. When it goes tits up you'll need your contract to fall back on should it go legal.

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...g-startup.html

[Hawkings]

If you do go down the start up route go in with your eyes wide open. They can be exciting but 80%+ of them will fail. They are also a bit of a mare regarding remuneration and the like as they tend not to have any money to start with.

The rewards, if they do take off and you are there from the start, can be very good though.

There are a couple of threads about startups on here, one example is below. It's about contracting but I think a lot of the advice/situations could apply to perm in general. Didn't read it all so it that thread doesn't mention it.. negotiate hard for a good deal as you are taking a risk and get everything in writing. Don't think you are all buddies and working together. When it goes tits up you'll need your contract to fall back on should it go legal.

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...g-startup.html

Thanks very much...I'll read that carefully.

[northernladuk]

Thanks very much...I'll read that carefully.

There are some others so try finding them using the google search method. Type something like the following in to google.

Start up site:forums.contractoruk.com

I remember at least two where a contractor went in accepting shares as remuneration and the fairly obvious happened. There is also a current thread updated today about a guy doing work without a contract for a one man band and now can't get paid.

Worth a read in case. Forewarned is forearmed.

[Hawkings]

There are some others so try finding them using the google search method. Type something like the following in to google.

Start up site:forums.contractoruk.com

I remember at least two where a contractor went in accepting shares as remuneration and the fairly obvious happened. There is also a current thread updated today about a guy doing work without a contract for a one man band and now can't get paid.

Worth a read in case. Forewarned is forearmed.

To be more precise, this startup has been running for a couple of years now and has about 15 employees so not a fresh startup.

It's my question about how much is reasonable to expect in terms of a title boost when converting from contract. I'm worried about all the promised progression paths being vapourware, and I'm stuck earning 35% less reporting into a contractor on a lot more than me, where the firm hasn't been able to convert that role to perm for whatever reason. Whichever way I look at it, it will leave oneself feeling a bit miffed, and I'll up mentally checking out.

So should I hard negotiate for a decent title / role which puts me on my way prior to joining?

[Paralytic]

To be more precise, this startup has been running for a couple of years now and has about 15 employees so not a fresh startup.

It's my question about how much is reasonable to expect in terms of a title boost when converting from contract. I'm worried about all the promised progression paths being vapourware, and I'm stuck earning 35% less reporting into a contractor on a lot more than me, where the firm hasn't been able to convert that role to perm for whatever reason. Whichever way I look at it, it will leave oneself feeling a bit miffed, and I'll up mentally checking out.

So should I hard negotiate for a decent title / role which puts me on my way prior to joining?

In what way will a title/role mitigate against being "stuck earning 35% less reporting into a contractor on a lot more than me, where the firm hasn't been able to convert that role to perm for whatever reason."

A job title is just a bunch of letters/words. I'd be inclined to try get something written into the contract of employment.

[northernladuk]

It's my question about how much is reasonable to expect in terms of a title boost when converting from contract. I'm worried about all the promised progression paths being vapourware, and I'm stuck earning 35% less reporting into a contractor on a lot more than me, where the firm hasn't been able to convert that role to perm for whatever reason. Whichever way I look at it, it will leave oneself feeling a bit miffed, and I'll up mentally checking out.

So should I hard negotiate for a decent title / role which puts me on my way prior to joining?

Firstly you are going perm, different beast to contracting in many ways so can't really call it converting. Secondly you are going in to a micro company so there will be little structure or process.

You can't go round being miffed off. What they earn is none of your business. You've just got to negotiate the best option that you are happy with, sign up and get on with it, warts n all.

You certainly can't expect to be put on your way at a micro company either. They won't be big enough to guarantee it. They wan't profitable bums on seats and that's it for now. The upside is you will get really good exposure of the entire lifecycle, you've got the chance to influence the work and improve it, it's going to be hard and fast but if it pulls off good fun and you'll learn a lot more. If you can prove something will make money they will let you do it so you've a chance to shape your own career.

Only you know if you can deal with that and not be miffed off. It's not always about the money, there are other opportunities. And remember it's not for ever. You don't like it then you leave. At worst you do like a year and bail with all your new experience. I've been on gigs as much as 550 and as low as 375 so a 35% swing within contracting. I'd do that rate again if it the benefits made it worth it.

At the end of the day you could also spend 2, 3 or more months on the bench and there is a 25% drop in income. Your 3 years in your own gig hasn't exposed you to the risks we face.