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Managed service type contract via agency?

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    Managed service type contract via agency?

    Been approached by an agency for role with a pub sec organisation; brief details: role is out of IR35 (they say) owing to the way which they (agency) run the contract as a managed service; contractors must have own kit (tick), work is based on agreed milestones & deliverables (tick), so similar to statement of works where you get paid (only) if you achieve the milestones...(errrm tick). Opportunity to revise deliverables/timescales if there are issues which are out of your control. No timesheets to submit just something indicating milestones/deliverables delivered. All seems like a new way that this agency operates to ensure out of scope in pub sec, and akin to b2b really. Already done tele-intvw. Sounds ok from IR35 perspective.

    Has anyone worked a recent contract similar to the above? Any pitfalls/issues?
    Clarity is everything

    #2
    Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post
    Been approached by an agency for role with a pub sec organisation; brief details: role is out of IR35 (they say) owing to the way which they (agency) run the contract as a managed service; contractors must have own kit (tick), work is based on agreed milestones & deliverables (tick), so similar to statement of works where you get paid (only) if you achieve the milestones...(errrm tick). Opportunity to revise deliverables/timescales if there are issues which are out of your control. No timesheets to submit just something indicating milestones/deliverables delivered. All seems like a new way that this agency operates to ensure out of scope in pub sec, and akin to b2b really. Already done tele-intvw. Sounds ok from IR35 perspective.

    Has anyone worked a recent contract similar to the above? Any pitfalls/issues?
    I was through the consultancy arm of an agency when I was in the PS but the reality was I was just bodyshopped. None of the above applied to me and I doubt in the upper contract either.

    Forget all that fluff, what are the actually working practices? You part of a team delivering a set service or is are the deliverables/milestones a good job at the end of each month and in return you'll get paid monthly yadda yadda.

    I'd do a hell of a lot of investigating in to that milestones carry on. We've seen endless threads on here where a product was delivered and the client didn't like it leaving the contractor in a really bad situation. If they've glossed over the detail of what the deliverable and have no clear sign off criteria you are going to be left high and dry if it's delivered but the client argues it.

    I still think it's just a game to look like a consultancy TBH but you'll know better, or should be able to find out.

    How many other contractors on this framework? How long has it been going? Any payment or milestone issues to date?
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
      I was through the consultancy arm of an agency when I was in the PS but the reality was I was just bodyshopped. None of the above applied to me and I doubt in the upper contract either.

      Forget all that fluff, what are the actually working practices? You part of a team delivering a set service or is are the deliverables/milestones a good job at the end of each month and in return you'll get paid monthly yadda yadda.

      I'd do a hell of a lot of investigating in to that milestones carry on. We've seen endless threads on here where a product was delivered and the client didn't like it leaving the contractor in a really bad situation. If they've glossed over the detail of what the deliverable and have no clear sign off criteria you are going to be left high and dry if it's delivered but the client argues it.

      I still think it's just a game to look like a consultancy TBH but you'll know better, or should be able to find out.

      How many other contractors on this framework? How long has it been going? Any payment or milestone issues to date?
      Am meeting them this week f2f so it'll be an opportunity to explore deeper. The model has been approved by HMRC, apparently. Big agency, big pub sec organisation, long term project, good rates. Team comprises mostly contractors all delivering monthly chunks of work which form part of the agreed main programme. I'm initially thinking pressure cooker environment, but could be wrong. I'll find out later this week. Reason for post was to see if anyone else had done similar & gather thoughts before I see them - forewarned etc. so as to avoid a 'bad situation'.
      Clarity is everything

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post
        The model has been approved by HMRC, apparently.
        I wonder where we've heard that before....

        Do they have a QC opinion too?

        I'd be asking for proof of this "approval".

        Comment


          #5
          I have worked similar to this with a PS before. From my experience few points:

          1 - Make sure there is defined acceptance criteria for each deliverable. Do not keep it vague - There shouldnt be any room for the PS to say you didnt meet the milestones to their standards.

          2 - Make sure there is a proper change control process in place should a milestone/deliverable need to be changed.

          3 - From the PS side, make sure there is a set person(s) who are signing off on the work and if they are not available, a back up. Make sure this is firmly laid out. - I had a few cases were either the person who could sign of on the deliverable was away or (as I have found is often the case), no one person at the PS wants the responsibility of signing off the work and so it has to go to a board for approval...and the board only meets once every 2 months or some tulip like that.

          Comment


            #6
            This approach is my primary concern with the MSR approach. I mainly work on Business Operating Model design, and half the time the client has no idea what an Op Model is/for, or they mean a solution architecture, or they really want process maps.

            A running joke on my current programme is that anytime there is a semi-sizeable problem the gut reaction is 'that sounds like an Op Model problem' and gets dumped in my direction.

            Not entirely fair as some clients do have formal business architecture type teams with clear deliverables/documents (LBG spring to mind) but the majority are at the opposite end of the scale, so going to be interesting to try and define common deliverables up front.

            My current client is heavily in favour of a MSR approach, hence my interest/concern, as it has been a complete nightmare getting anything agreed here.

            Fun times ahead!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by xar18 View Post
              ... some clients do have formal business architecture type teams with clear deliverables/documents

              Yep it's along these lines, as far as I understand things at the moment.
              Clarity is everything

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by MonkeysUncle View Post
                I have worked similar to this with a PS before. From my experience few points:

                1 - Make sure there is defined acceptance criteria for each deliverable. Do not keep it vague - There shouldnt be any room for the PS to say you didnt meet the milestones to their standards.

                2 - Make sure there is a proper change control process in place should a milestone/deliverable need to be changed.

                3 - From the PS side, make sure there is a set person(s) who are signing off on the work and if they are not available, a back up. Make sure this is firmly laid out. - I had a few cases were either the person who could sign of on the deliverable was away or (as I have found is often the case), no one person at the PS wants the responsibility of signing off the work and so it has to go to a board for approval...and the board only meets once every 2 months or some tulip like that.
                Cheers, good points to raise with them...
                Clarity is everything

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Paralytic View Post
                  I wonder where we've heard that before....

                  Do they have a QC opinion too?

                  I'd be asking for proof of this "approval".
                  I've not heard it before, so maybe you can give examples where you have?
                  Clarity is everything

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post
                    where you get paid (only) if you achieve the milestones...(errrm tick)
                    That's a hell no from me. 95% of failure to meet deadlines has been due to the client ******* things up, lack of resource, direction, bad specs, delays in approval etc.

                    Comment

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