A Sad “IR35” Day A Sad “IR35” Day
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  1. #1

    Still gathering requirements...


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    Default A Sad “IR35” Day

    So, I had my “IR35 discussion” with my current client last Friday.

    Client: Ok, so as per the communication from your agency
    Me: You mean from you the client?
    Client: Yes well, I’ve not read the email, but I’ve been told you have a few options.
    1. Client: Go permie, we have a role coming onto the board. We have lots of internal people who have applied though..its grade xx but you should apply *wink*.
    Me: Is there any scope for salary negotiation?
    Client: No, it’s within the band
    Me: No thank you.
    2. Client: You can work via your agency
    Me: You mean umbrella?
    Client: ermm, yes I think so
    Me: But they stated no rate increase
    Client: well that’s up to them how much they take
    Me: No thank you
    3. Client: ermm perhaps we can extend you to Feb
    Me: I’ll consider

    Client: In the meanwhile, we realise that you have domain knowledge that no one else has, so from now on, we want you to supervise/train the permies instead of actually performing the role for the next 2 months.
    Me: I’m a service provider. My contract is to perform a specified service and not to train your staff because you have messed up and given contractors more knowledge than your permies
    Client: Well, if the Programme Manager hears that, he will escort you off site
    Me: and......

    I realised just how bad it is. It’s actually embarrassing how clients underestimate the importance of the contract workforce. They are happy to blanket evaluate all contractors, but then try and insist you need to train their staff before you leave.

    There’s a world of pain coming.
    Last edited by BABABlackSheep; 15th October 2019 at 05:42.

  2. #2

    Nervous Newbie


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    Quote Originally Posted by BABABlackSheep View Post
    So, I had my “IR35 discussion” with my current client last Friday.

    Client: Ok, so as per the communication from your agency
    Me: You mean from you the client?
    Client: Yes well, I’ve not read the email, but I’ve been told you have a few options.
    1. Client: Go permie, we have a role coming onto the board. We have lots of internal people who have applied though..its grade xx but you should apply *wink*.
    Me: Is there any scope for salary negotiation?
    Client: No, it’s within the band
    Me: No thank you.
    2. Client: You can work via your agency
    Me: You mean umbrella?
    Client: ermm, yes I think so
    Me: But they stated no rate increase
    Client: well that’s up to them how much they take
    Me: No thank you
    3. Client: ermm perhaps we can extend you to Feb
    Me: I’ll consider

    Client: In the meanwhile, we realise that you have domain knowledge that no one else has, so from now on, we want you to supervise/train the permies instead of actually performing the role for the next 2 months.
    Me: I’m a service provider. My contract is to perform a specified service and not to train your staff because you have messed up and given contractors more knowledge than your permies
    Client: Well, if the Programme Manager hears that, they will escort you off site
    Me: and......

    I realised just how bad it is. It’s actually embarrassing how clients underestimate the importance of the contract workforce. They are happy to blanket evaluate all contractors, but then try and insist you need to train their staff before you leave.

    There’s a world of pain coming.
    What are you gonna do ? I wouldn't take the extension based on that, although I don't have contracting experience, so could be wrong.

  3. #3

    Still gathering requirements...


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    Quote Originally Posted by CFC View Post
    What are you gonna do ? I wouldn't take the extension based on that, although I don't have contracting experience, so could be wrong.
    Going to do as little as possible, not train their staff and get the hell out of there.

    Of course if I can’t get another gig, I’ll do the same for an extra 2 months

    *edited*actually, I’m kidding myself. I’ll probably just keep on working hard to make the time pass quicker
    Last edited by BABABlackSheep; 15th October 2019 at 05:50.

  4. #4

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
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    So when do you get the official determination you are inside because whatever you are going to do should be before that.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    So when do you get the official determination you are inside because whatever you are going to do should be before that.
    By end of Feb, everyone staying will either need to be either Permie or Umbrella.

    My contract is up at the end of Nov.

    I only have 3 choices that I’m considering

    1. Leave at the end of Contract
    2. Leave as soon as I can
    3. Extend till end of Feb

    Thoughts?

  6. #6

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    TheInvoicer's Avatar
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    I would extend to the end of Feb, reasons are you get the income and also you keep the client happy. After you leave who knows how the perms will perform stepping up. You may get invited back further down the line. Either way you kept your options open and get the extra money.


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  7. #7

    Some things in Moderation

    cojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheInvoicer View Post
    I would extend to the end of Feb, reasons are you get the income and also you keep the client happy. After you leave who knows how the perms will perform stepping up. You may get invited back further down the line. Either way you kept your options open and get the extra money.


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    Unless he gets walked off the site for refusing to train the permies, that is...

  8. #8

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    TheInvoicer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    Unless he gets walked off the site for refusing to train the permies, that is...
    True but that seems quite extreme outcome however I doubt the perms are going to be enthusiastic about the handover so might be an element of your going to be the scape goat for management and staff - “it was the handover”. Would need handled carefully.


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  9. #9

    More time posting than coding


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    I would take it as an opportunity.
    Pitch for a new contract to train the permies at a premium rate.
    Client gets what he wants, you get an increased rate and relative certainty on the existing contract because it will have ended.

  10. #10

    Fingers like lightning

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    Quote Originally Posted by fidot View Post
    I would take it as an opportunity.
    Pitch for a new contract to train the permies at a premium rate.
    Client gets what he wants, you get an increased rate and relative certainty on the existing contract because it will have ended.
    This person contracts.

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