Contract Amendments

[WTFH]

15th November:

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2698885

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2699046

The agent can't issue a contract until they have the name of the business they are issuing the contract to.

If you then go round bad-mouthing the agent, blaming them for you failing to make a decision, then it's not going to reflect well on you.

[northernladuk]

I was 90% sure it was going to be limited but an IR35 consultant report concluding it's inside should be a kick up the backside for the agent who insisted it wasn't. He's just emailed me to ask if I have my limited company documents yet.

I'm not sure if these reports are any good for a HMRC investigation but it does potentially weaken my case if the changes aren't made.

These reports are key as they set out your situation from the off. If a tax advisor says your contract is a fail and you are inside as it stands then it doesn't weaken your case, you don't have one. The recent cases have all focused heavily of substitution and your fails so not a good place to be in. I doubt you will get insurance you either, and if you did they can decide not to represent you if there is little chance of success.

It gets worse. The days of the agent just making an amendment to a contract to make it OK with no heed to the actual working practices have gone. HMRC will go straight to the client and ask if they will allow a sub to which they are likely to say no. Double screwed. And on top of all that the client will have to make a determination in the next few week which is likely to have no basis on some fudged document between you and the agent and looking around it would be safe to work on the assumption it will go inside. The fact the agent isnt talking about this is a huge red flag to me.

We are way past agents fudging contractors to pass an IR35 assesment.

I'd be heading towards brolly if I was in your shoes.

[mb31]

Some very useful input here, which is greatly appreciated regardless of bluntness.

malvolio, I don't pretend to know what I'm doing and the agent has just emailed to say he's chasing up legal so there's no grumbling about my heels.

WTFH, thanks for the links, that moneybags fella is a right jerk and he knows even less about contracting than me. good riddance and well done to the executioner. I've double checked my messages and I've not been bad mouthing the agent to the client. The only people I bad mouth are my wife and moderators, both are very forgiving.

NLUK, they're right, I'm being a ditherer. To be fair, these are uncertain times at home and overseas: general election, Brexit, legislation changes, secret Santa etc. As I said in a previous post, part of the reason I've been taking my time is I'm pushing for determination from the client and I am familiarising myself with my contract so that I can align my working practises in agreement with the client. I can talk about substitutes with the client and, as I'm only just starting, I could argue to HMRC that my intentions to substitute are genuine but there has been no opportunity to exercise the associated clause after less than 6 months. It's interesting to know which way you'd be going as a seasoned contractor, the take home is not quite high enough to justify umbrella and expenses unfortunately. The rates I'm being presented for my kind of roles so far are between £52-£60ph which initially I thought was good until I saw what you IT folks are on.

Should have done IT at Uni, engineering was a bitch.

[northernladuk]

Nothing to do with your intentions, it's what the client allows. Discussing it with them and getting a flat no is worse than it being there and available to use even if untested.

Which way would we go? All directions. Some people don't believe they'll ever be caught or don't have a scoobies about IR35 will take it. A large middle ground with struggle with the situation and go either way and a few hardcore guys that are good enough not to have to put up with this crap would just drop it and look for something else.

There is no one answer for such a messy situation.

For me, I'd go brolly for the first 3 month period until the dust settles and once you know either way you can go limited if its possible or stay brolly. Its what I did in my very first gig. You lose a bit on tax for three months but it's so long ago it's just irrelevant. If it does stay outside there is nothing wrong with changing the contract to Ltd at next renewal.

[mb31]

The way I look at it, I'd be a fairly unexciting target for HMRC having just set up and with a couple of months tax owed should they take a retrospective approach. I suppose it depends on how they do their searches, if it's random then I've got the same chance as anyone.

The worst case cost for me as far as I'm aware would be closing down the Ltd (£200), tax owed (£2K ish), insurance cancellation fees and I need to discuss any contractual exit fees with Gorilla.

Am I missing any other potential costs? Will HMRC fine us?

Alternatively I could go dormant, throw a wobbly and leave the client on the basis that I can manage until October with my perm salary. Working away from home all week is a big sacrifice and when I crunched the Umbrella numbers with expenses and pension I was only taking home a couple of grand more than my last perm job. That's assuming there's no rate cut.

[WTFH]

Should have done IT at Uni, engineering was a bitch.

Yup. After I qualified I only used my mech eng for about a year.

Perhaps rather than boasting about how you did a course you found “a bitch” compared to courses you consider would have been far easier, maybe you should have done a course that better suited your attitude.

[northernladuk]

Yup. After I qualified I only used my mech eng for about a year.

Perhaps rather than boasting about how you did a course you found “a bitch” compared to courses you consider would have been far easier, maybe you should have done a course that better suited your attitude.

Well he'll be getting his CUK honory degree in Unending Tedium soon so maybe that will help him.

[mb31]

There's next to no chance of me getting any kind of Honorary degree from CUK. Perhaps I might get a few nominations at the CUK raspberry awards.

Perhaps rather than boasting about how you did a course you found “a bitch” compared to courses you consider would have been far easier, maybe you should have done a course that better suited your attitude.

If I had my time again I'd do midwifery. Examining prolapsed female genitalia and catching slippery new borns has got to be more interesting than VHDL.

I didn't say IT is any more or less difficult than engineering. You assume I'm trying to offend. Actually, having audited a number of large software developments over the last few years I can categorically say that my job is easier than that of a developer or software engineer but it's all a matter of perspective.

The rates I quote are for generic principal electrical and electronics engineers. I know of people who get much better rates because of the critical safety niche. I still need to prove I can make the transition to contracting so I'm not going to push my luck.

[BR14]

and on.
and on.
and on.
and on.

[mb31]

and on.