overseas contract and IR35

[Lance]

overseas contract and IR35

No, a foreign client won't be liable for ErNI without changes to other legislation; the geographic scope of that is set in the relevant NICs legislation. In that respect, it's no different to asking HMRC for a PAYE Direct payment scheme, DPNI (full PAYE) for a foreign employer with no UK presence, which is presumably what you're alluding to. Likewise, that liability wouldn't exist now (pre-April 2020) for YourCo.

Otherwise, I agree with you, which is why I was surprised by the consultation and draft legislation and that is presumably why Lance is surprised too. Still, I'm just reporting on what I'm seeing. Also, since when has logic interrupted HMRC from blowing themselves up? [emoji3]

It does make no sense if you interpret correctly.

An outside UK client can make any determination they want knowing that whilst in UK law they’re responsible, practically they’re not. And neither is the contractor.

Step up loads of new schemes, outside the UK making outside determinations, where neither the contractor nor the ‘client’ can be held to account.

Edit: if that makes no sense I blam alcohols and will correct tomorrow.

[jamesbrown]

It does make no sense if you interpret correctly.

An outside UK client can make any determination they want knowing that whilst in UK law they’re responsible, practically they’re not. And neither is the contractor.

Step up loads of new schemes, outside the UK making outside determinations, where neither the contractor nor the ‘client’ can be held to account.

Edit: if that makes no sense I blam alcohols and will correct tomorrow.

Right, in practice, it will be hard to collect.

I don't see any opportunity for scheming though. I mean, if the entire supply chain is outside the UK, then it simply is, and vice versa. You cannot will the end client outside the UK. If the work is done at a client site in the UK (edit: or simply for a UK company, ultimately), then the client has a UK presence. If there is any company with a UK presence in the supply chain, that company is liable. How would a scheme get around that?

[jamesbrown]

Also, realistically, how many contracts with a fully overseas supply chain are going to be inside IR35 (either now or after April 2020)? It's a tiny fraction of the overall contracting market, the smallest risk, and I don't really see scheming opportunities. But, again, I was surprised to see the consultation and legislation drafted this way. It could change. We'll see.

[a l e x]

how many contracts with a fully overseas supply chain.

I would say that significant share of discussions happens these days (I am looking for new contracts right now) assumes a partial or complete remote work. During the last 2 weeks, the prospect locations were Belgium, Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, etc... 2 or 3 days a week on site, other time remote. Or visit them every second week for collaboration, etc. But I cannot explain them that should take into account IR35 legisalation of the UK. The usual result - they suggest me (and my family) to relocate.