Originally posted by Lance
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FIX AN ARGUMENT You get told on monday Your Inside IR35
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Originally posted by LetterBox View PostWell, they can, it's just not in those formal terms. The client is allowed to have an opinion at any time, that client tells the contractor what the client's opinion is. The contractor will respond to say that if the client has that opinion then it puts the contractor 'inside IR35'. Client does not declare you're inside IR35, they just tell you how they see it based on your current contract/WP. Up until now the client has never had to offer an opinion, they may have had one but why rock the boat? and the contractors never want the opinion of the client as if they have an opinion that puts the contractor as a bum on a seat it has a very strong weighting in IR35 court cases.
What you'll find is that an individual may have an opinion but the client (formally) will have no opinion at all.See You Next TuesdayComment
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Originally posted by mikedesign View PostOk quick Q
if you got told you're inside on Monday, effectively whilst they are saying it doesn't come into play till April the reality is you have now been told
So what are the implications, will an agency effectively take the next invoice and say- you should be paying TAX an NI we hear from the company you are now inside.
There's a Q&A pdf also floating around with a little disclaimer floating round that says if you're inside now then you probably should have been since the beginning of your contract HMRC may wish to claim this back through self assessment.
Many here where I am think they are just going to carry on invoicing as they do today (whilst they are outside) once they have been told they are inside??
what do you think?
The above scenario looks unlikely though, if they state an opinion (as after April they need an opinion) then coupled with making that, they will also have plans to re-position pre-April. That'll mean Monday they have an opinion, Tuesday they send out comms saying all contracts terminated in 1 week. New contracts offered through Umbrella etc, no more PSCs, no more PSCs mean they no longer need to hold an opinion, and the reason opinions are dangerous is because they are open to discussion / disagreements, that creates client risk.
That 'Monday opinion' can vary from opinions on individual PSCs, all the way through to, no risk, no opinion, policy change, no more PSCs = no risk of discussion / disagreements (taken to court etc).Comment
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Originally posted by Lance View Posthow so?
It's not even law yet.
If the client has determined OP's contract as inside, when it's not their call, then this is at the moment simply a difference of opinion.
The client may say that they will determine it as inside, after April 5th, when it's their problem. The client does not have the right to declare it as inside right now.
What to do if your worker disagrees with the determination
Your worker’s client must decide your worker’s employment status and if the off-payroll working rules apply. The client must then tell your worker their determination and the reasons for it.
If your worker disagrees, they’ll need to write to the client to give reasons why.
This should include details of:
the employment status determination they disagree with
their reasons for disagreeing
Keep copies of any records about disagreements.
The client will then have 45 days from the date of receiving the worker’s disagreement to respond. During that time the client should continue to apply the rules in line with their original determination.
If the employment status determination has not changed, the client will have to tell the worker.
If the employment status determination has changed, the client will have to tell the worker and the fee-payer.Originally posted by Stevie Wonder BoyI can't see any way to do it can you please advise?
I want my account deleted and all of my information removed, I want to invoke my right to be forgotten.Comment
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Originally posted by Lance View Postso you're saying they can't make the declaration but they can have an opinion.
What you'll find is that an individual may have an opinion but the client (formally) will have no opinion at all.
The reality for the OP benefit from the 'boots on the ground' is that many clients see an opinion as risk and instead of offering HMRC that opinion which they are required to after April, they have just removed the requirement that HMRC have imposed. As we are all aware...Comment
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Originally posted by SimonMac View PostSee You Next TuesdayComment
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I don't think making up unrealistic scenarios and firing off one line questions is helpful at all. You are completely missing all the stuff going on in the background at the client and the agent and how they will deal with it. The answer is what have they done about it or told you, which we don't know because it's a made up situation.
Understand the whole situation better and using that knowledge make any scenario you want up and apply your knowledge to that.
Even posting it in the right section might have helped though.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostI don't think making up unrealistic scenarios and firing off one line questions is helpful at all. You are completely missing all the stuff going on in the background at the client and the agent and how they will deal with it. The answer is what have they done about it or told you, which we don't know because it's a made up situation.
Understand the whole situation better and using that knowledge make any scenario you want up and apply your knowledge to that.
Even posting it in the right section might have helped though.
Post April 6th will become easier, you'll just be viewing more posts that ask for Umbrella, FTC or employment calculators.Comment
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ClientCo might have as much opinions as they want. As long as it's different from the opinion of the judge if it comes to a court case with HMRC and/or you have an insurance why do you care?
Or do you suggest a scenario where ClientCo/Agency withholds tax prior to April 2020 based on their opinion the contract is inside IR35? In which case I would just follow the process of recovering debt for unpaid invoices and likely terminate the contract.Comment
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Originally posted by sal View PostClientCo might have as much opinions as they want. As long as it's different from the opinion of the judge if it comes to a court case with HMRC and/or you have an insurance why do you care?
Originally posted by sal View PostOr do you suggest a scenario where ClientCo/Agency withholds tax prior to April 2020 based on their opinion the contract is inside IR35? In which case I would just follow the process of recovering debt for unpaid invoices and likely terminate the contract.Comment
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