Any clue how many of your fellow contractors are going inside?

[Si666]

my understanding is money earned in Germany must be taxed in Germany from day 1. You will need a German tax specialist for sure.

No, if you are resident (spend 183 days or more) you are liable to pay tax there, regardless of which country the money is paid in to.
The jobs in question are through small UK consultancies, so payment is made back in Blighty and taxed accordingly. If I become resident in Germany, then it gets complicated.
If the money is PAID in Germany, then I think you might be right.

[CompoundOverload]

What is annoying me about this whole inside / outside debacle is the scaremongering you see, namely on Linkedin.

People think just because you've gone from an outside engagement to a PAYE one this automatically qualifies for an investigation.

People really need to do some more digging in order to stop making others panic.

What could POTENTIALLY trigger an investigation is if you remain at the same client in an outside capacity and stay on after April inside (assuming your deliverables / T&Cs et al have not changed and not documented).

Unless I am completely missing the mark, going to a completely new client PAYE / umbrella there is no way of them even knowing your circumstances have changed. And say they do, they have got EXACTLY what they wanted, you paying full whacking on your earnings!

[psychocandy]

A few key contractors will be retained outside IR35.

Most contractors (who are actually permitractors doing Dev or BA roles) will be moved inside.

Talking to some of permitractors I'm always amazed at general lack of wider knowledge,

"April? - what's going on in April?"

"Dunno much about IR35"

etc.

Most of these folks will go back to perm roles and the contractor workforce will revert to where is was 10-15 years ago which might not be such as bad thing for UK IT as a whole.

Yep it amazes me sometimes how thick some people are....

[Cirrus]

to do it again and again for years and decades on end screams permanent employee.

It's not that these people are not permietractors. It's the fact that so is every other contractor. Coming in and doing just one project (that might take 1-2 years perhaps) still isn't slam-dunk different to what a permie might do. I once worked for a consultancy that did a mix of single projects or people being re-assigned to new projects. The offer was always 'you can be an employee or a contractor, it's entirely your choice'. I chose contractor but I was working with permies doing exactly the same types of things. I guess lots of people genuinely feel they are 'businesses in their own right' but I think an awful lot more would view such statements with a wry smile.

[LondonManc]

There are obvious extremes to everyones contractor experience, to speak in absolute terms makes no sense. To move from one project to another at the same company really shouldn't be an issue, I have done it myself but to do it again and again for years and decades on end screams permanent employee. These are exactly the people who put HMRCs eye of Sauron on contractors and they deserve every bit of our contempt.

I also find it incredulous that after a decade of pulling down a hefty wedge contracting at a bank these individuals can not contemplate going anywhere else and have put an even bigger target on their back by moving inside (like the permies they were all along).

Quite a lot I would expect are living like permies - maxing dividends and spending it like a permie take-home - LV bags for the girls, Hugo Boss suits for the guys, big wine bills, etc.

[BR14]

Yep it amazes me sometimes how thick some people are....

you look in mirrors, at all?

[LondonManc]

you look in mirrors, at all?

Looks? He licks em and points at planes.

[ascender]

At my current gig there's half a dozen working for a consultancy, all on outside IR35 contracts at the moment. They're all either going inside or getting a new inside contract at a different client.

At the end client we're delivering in to, there's a team of circa 17. All but one is going to go inside, with one wanting a break and hoping to get an outside ir35 contract.

From my wider circle, almost everyone is going to suck it up and go inside as the reality is there's bills to pay.

Industry = finance btw

[dsc]

Current gig - finishing off a project, so most contractors are leaving anyway. Out of 5 contractors, 1 is going perm at another client, 1 going into a different outside contract, 2 (including me) will leave if inside determination comes, 1 is not sure.

Another team which is basically another stage of what I'm working on has 4 people, 2 permies, 2 contractors - both said they would leave if inside determination comes.

Another huge project upstairs which has around 8 contractors, most said they would leave if inside.

The reality is that it's fine saying you will go IF inside happens, but until that moment comes nothing is guaranteed and I can see s lot of people caving in which of course is what HMRC wants. As it's been said people have mortgages / bills / small warchests etc. and for them this is the reality and is happening now, whereas an investigation, however scary that might be, isn't happening yet and might never come.

[northernladuk]

At my current gig there's half a dozen working for a consultancy, all on outside IR35 contracts at the moment. They're all either going inside or getting a new inside contract at a different client.

At the end client we're delivering in to, there's a team of circa 17. All but one is going to go inside, with one wanting a break and hoping to get an outside ir35 contract.

From my wider circle, almost everyone is going to suck it up and go inside as the reality is there's bills to pay.

And I expect this will be the case for many. Very nice everyone will be leaving to get outside gigs or not taking inside gigs on principle but have you thought about how much you will potentially lose looking for the unicorn poop that will be an outside gig. 80% less outside gigs, 80% more people going for it? I think many people are kidding themselves and are in for a real shock.