Outside IR35 rates coming down

[Disguised Contractor]

Really, for some of us that was obvious 20 years ago - the last time HMRC suggested clients take responsibility.

My current work is 4+ years in the making for the very sane reason that the current clusterf*** was unavoidable.

I salute your memory, but it clearly wasn't the expected case for the overwhelming majority, which brings us to this situation now.

Extreme last-minute reactions all over the shop, from everybody.

Never good for business.

[eek]

Not sure I or any contractors I know were 'aware'...

In the same way as

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

it's your responsibility to know what the government is doing

[eek]

I salute your memory, but it clearly wasn't the expected case for the overwhelming majority, which brings us to this situation now.

Extreme last-minute reactions all over the shop, from everybody.

Never good for business.

Very good for other businesses though...

[fargaman]

In a years time new visa rules enable anyone earning > £26K from anywhere in the world to come in

Why would employers hire people at £800 day when they can get 4 permies for that money

They've been trying that trick for more than 20 years (my contracting career), and if offshore/onshore consulting was the solution, it would have been achieved by now.
In my experience, for every project offshored or outsourced in this way, there's another one being brought back in house for us contractors to fix.
Its mostly a false economy that every new generation of manager has to learn.
Which is not to say it doesn't have an effect. It does, but probably not as dramatic as we like to think

[northernladuk]

I'm not so sure about this - I'm sure many will *say* that, and be actively looking for a replacement gig, and I know all about it being reportedly a big red flag to HMRC about continuing in an inside-IR35 role post-April which was previously outside-IR35, but only a true idiot would leave a role where money was coming in to jump into a market where clearly anarchy is reigning and roles are rare for anybody. I know I wouldn't - pragmatically, I'd make sure I was at least in a position where money was coming in, as I would have no idea of where my next paycheck would be coming from.

Where this might be true at this moment in time, there has been plenty of time to plan to not be in this position and there is going to be enough roles out there as the merry go round starts so there are many reasons for people not to be in the position right now so it's avoidable. Yes it's that last ditch option but you could argue the true idiot would have put them in this position to then take this option.

Realistically, who has the funds to have a year off? I, for one, do not. I have an emergency kitty like anyone else, but I'd be stupid to wait until it was low before evaluating the market.

No, I'm going for whatever I can, right now, and taking whatever the market is prepared to offer me. Make money while the sun shines, however brightly or not.

I suspect I'm not the only one.

I'd say a lot more people than you think. We've been banging on about 6 months+ warchest for as long as I've been on this forum. The people that didn't take that advice are likely to be the people that haven't stepped up in all the time this issue has been floating around. As I said to another poster the other day, as bad as the market it is, the real problem is likely to be closer to home.

[hairymouse]

No, I'm going for whatever I can, right now, and taking whatever the market is prepared to offer me

PM me for an Azure role at £300 per day inside

[Disguised Contractor]

it's your responsibility to know what the government is doing

Correct.

(Caveat: As far as they are prepared to say - and then honesty is sparse.)

But knowing how the clients are going to respond? I maintain that this blanket ban reaction could not have been foretold, in my opinion. There was the expectation that at least some clients would break ranks, do the CEST job properly, take a suitable position on the risk by due diligence and mitigation, and hire the best outside-IR35 contractors coming available that the blanketers no longer valued.

And I think it'll change. Somebody will suddenly realise that there's a better-than-typical supply of outside-ir35 and extremely competent contractors, available to any client who simply wants to pay the same rate under the same conditions that they should have been doing last year.

Even permies are not unaffected - I'm seeing a strong rise in fixed-term (typically two-year, inside-ir35, no-benefits, no sick, no holiday) roles replacing permie jobs, now, and I'm waiting to see what the HMRC will do when it finally notices.

[Disguised Contractor]

PM me for an Azure role at £300 per day inside

Within reason.....!

Make it in London or remote, add another hundred a day, with a week's notice period, and I'll take it.

Seriously. Better than sitting and watching Daytime TV, and reading what people say they are going to do.

[eek]

Correct.

(Caveat: As far as they are prepared to say - and then honesty is sparse.)

But knowing how the clients are going to respond? I maintain that this blanket ban reaction could not have been foretold, in my opinion. There was the expectation that at least some clients would break ranks, do the CEST job properly, take a suitable position on the risk by due diligence and mitigation, and hire the best outside-IR35 contractors coming available that the blanketers no longer valued.

And I think it'll change. Somebody will suddenly realise that there's a better-than-typical supply of outside-ir35 and extremely competent contractors, available to any client who simply wants to pay the same rate under the same conditions that they should have been doing last year.

Even permies are not unaffected - I'm seeing a strong rise in fixed-term (typically two-year, inside-ir35, no-benefits, no sick, no holiday) roles replacing permie jobs, now, and I'm waiting to see what the HMRC will do when it finally notices.

Blanket bans were obvious - it was the easiest solution when you can't trust the staff and the other option is additional cost and effort.

Over time that additional cost and effort may be worthwhile but it's going to take a while.

[Disguised Contractor]

there are many reasons for people not to be in the position right now

Agreed - but right now is all we have - the rest is prophecy and reading tea leaves, and I don't believe in all that.

Right now, the market is dead. Do you see any signs that it's picking up? No, neither do I.

Now, we can debate all we like as to why and when any recovery might start, but that's only our opinions, and the market doesn't trundle on those.

Let's face the situation as it is today.

We've been banging on about 6 months+ warchest for as long as I've been on this forum. The people that didn't take that advice are likely to be the people that haven't stepped up in all the time this issue has been floating around. As I said to another poster the other day, as bad as the market it is, the real problem is likely to be closer to home.

Again, agreed on all points. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that however much planning one does, this is the black swan event that not everybody did plan for.

Perhaps we're just agreeing furiously.