Work in Banking? Don't worry about the blanket ban you were probably inside all along

[Glencky]

The underlying question is always: can you be distinguished from an equivalent permie?

Yes - exactly. And AS a permie, when I had a team made up of both, the answer was 'not in the ways that appear to matter for the purposes of the IR35 tests'. Hence my original decision. I always recognised there was a low risk of me ending up in a tribunal, but (for me anyway) that wasn't the point. And now, retrospectively, that risk appears to be rising sharply, even without the 6 April changes.

[jamesbrown]

Yes - exactly. And AS a permie, when I had a team made up of both, the answer was 'not in the ways that appear to matter for the purposes of the IR35 tests'. Hence my original decision. I always recognised there was a low risk of me ending up in a tribunal, but (for me anyway) that wasn't the point. And now, retrospectively, that risk appears to be rising sharply, even without the 6 April changes.

Indeed. FWIW, it looks increasingly like you made a very sensible move. That isn't to say that you were necessarily inside or that others like you are inside (facts do matter), but these banking contracts are surely borderline, on the whole, and the stress of an investigation shouldn't be underestimated.

[perplexed]

Hello and please forgive my apt newbie username. Not particularly shocked at this ruling. We all know as bank contractors we are easy targets and any concept of fairness or rule of law is long gone. That said, I wonder whether anyone has a list of practices they feel might class them "outside" and it may be prudent to unite on these? For example:

1. A lot of my work involves coding. I bring my own software licenses (paid by and registered in my ltd co. name) and install on client co. computers. No other perm employees utilise this particular software.

2. I exempt myself from any enforced Christmas/Easter furlough typically enforced on IT/PM contractors.

1a. I do hope you're not using anything with viral licensing...
1b. "No other perm employees".. so you're a perm then.
1c. I hope you're not in violation of software licences by installing it on client equipment.
1d. You use "own" third party software but don't provide own computer equipment?

2. Do perm employees have to take a furlough? Exempting yourself from something differentiating contractor from permie seems silly.

[ladymuck]

Interesting client that lets you turn up and install your own software on their kit. And this is in banking?

[GhostofTarbera]

Interesting client that lets you turn up and install your own software on their kit. And this is in banking?

Zero chance in hell


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[perplexed]

Thanks for your swift, considered, anally retentive response.

edit: No violation - have necessary approval in writing.

I know, it's a character flaw spotting clear issues in claims.

Bank lets you install third party software on their equipment eh?

No, the point is to distinguish myself from permietractors with enforced furloughs i.e. to be able to take as much (or indeed as little) "leave" as I like.

Furlough does not a permietractor make... you must be an exceptional talent for said financial institution to "waive" furlough for you.

[perplexed]

You may choose not to believe me. I'd rather not discuss details but my "reporting line" (not IT) permits me.

Given you sought permission from your "reporting line" for installing software, did he not give you permission to use your own equipment?

[ladymuck]

Good point, perhaps I should have sought permission to bring in Andrex Gentler than HMRC ^TM and my own corona gel. I see your point but surely HMRC expecting you to bring in your own hardware is reasonably nonsense? My motivation here is purely to get us all together with ideas on how to combat inevitable brown letters.

As has been said time and time again. It's your working practises that count.

Can permanent staff install whatever software they like, with their reporting managers permission? If yes, how does that make you special? Or are you going to say that the bank has a distinct policy against all employees installing software and that it can only be done by contractors.

[perplexed]

Good point, perhaps I should have sought permission to bring in Andrex Gentler than HMRC ^TM and my own corona gel. I see your point but surely HMRC expecting you to bring in your own hardware is reasonably nonsense? My motivation here is purely to get us all together with ideas on how to combat inevitable brown letters.

Bringing in own equipment imo is something that differs from sector to sector. Client has global ban on external equipment connecting to it's infrastructure, then I don't see that HMRC could argue against that.

The forum is full of ideas along with the recognition that every contract is different and working practices are key.

[ladymuck]

As hinted above by others, it's almost unheard of due to security policies. You make a good point... moot defense if any employee could do the same in principle. However, the fact that I'm providing my own ltd co license crucial to the contract and specifically for the purposes of my "specialist" services (where the clientco lacks expertise) carries some merit?

It shows you have financial costs that an employee would not bear but that's not a sufficient defence.

I do think Glencky's post above is the best view on this topic. Be honest about your situation and not go looking for loop holes that will inevitably unravel
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