IR35 reform pushed back

[northernladuk]

Anyway... What was the topic of this thread again?

[Paralytic]

There is lot of scare mongering on these boards by some individuals. Some people like me have refused contract extensions and new contracts by reading this forum. Not sure what they gain out of it.

Schadenfreude

[Scruff]

Schadenfreude

Hubris...

[skysies]

Good news!

I don't care what others are saying here, this is good news for us contractors, period!

My client made a blank determination that all of the contractors are inside IR35.

From April, I will declare myself OUTSIDE.

For all the permies here that are saying the HMRC will go after us, better watch your jobs and don't be so concerned about us. IMHO, we heading towards a horrid recession, so if HMRC wants to bankrupt us all with penalties, good luck with that.

[SteelyDan]

So, if we're now going to be back in control of self-determining in/out of roles, do we think that the balance will now come back in favour of contractors wrt to rates etc.?
I saw, what I considered very much to be, exploitation on rates, i.e. very low rates, kicking about on Jobserve etc. in recent months.

Or do you think clients are now set-up sufficiently well enough with the new SDS processes & will continue using them, or just put those things on the back-burner & leave any risk with the contractor?

[Dark Black]

I don't care what others are saying here, this is good news for us contractors, period!

My client made a blank determination that all of the contractors are inside IR35.

From April, I will declare myself OUTSIDE.

For all the permies here that are saying the HMRC will go after us, better watch your jobs and don't be so concerned about us. IMHO, we heading towards a horrid recession, so if HMRC wants to bankrupt us all with penalties, good luck with that.

[Jog On]

This is going to be a messy one. Many people have accepted inside roles in the interest of getting some paid work in a really bad market. Clients and agents have gone risk averse and declared roles inside regardless of actual working practices because they were going to be on the hook - which they now won't be for another year.

Then again those of us who have accepted inside roles haven't got many options given the current situation and what the market looks like now...

It's all very well to tell people "you accepted an inside role so you're obviously inside" but those roles being inside have more to do with end client/agency blanket decisions based on risk aversion.

Conversation I'm having with my agent now is "How much of a say does the end client/you now have on my status and would a change involve a new contract between you and the end client?"

IMO a change from status and working practices to support that isn't unreasonable. But I won't rock the boat too much given the current situation and what the market looks like at the moment. 6-8 weeks from now we could come out of all this and see a market bounce back. China have closed their makeshift hospitals.

How long were they on lockdown for?

[OntheBenchin2020]

Firstly the reform being pushed back is a good thing. If nothing else it might buy some time to get it amended.

Lets be clear - IR35 hasn't gone away. It's still a huge burden and weight on many of us every time we try and get work. There needs to be much better clarity and this has been needed for years however it's not in HMRCs interest to do this as the chances are everyone will then structure appropriately to avoid.

Don't think that HMRC won't be aggressively pursuing people whether Off Payroll rules and SDS are there or not. They may have a bloody nose over this but as has been shown with the Loan Charge scandal, this is an organisation that has no morals or care for people or the law to extort whatever sums they make up to hit targets. I only hope at some point we can find enough politicians with a spine to drive change there.

For me this comes too late. My role has gone, the organisation I worked for has changed it's work practices and they will still enforce Umbrella going forward. They have spent money changing their processes and delaying a year isn't changing this. They would have additional expense if they change back and then have this exercise again next year. In fact with the Coronavirus outbreak they have actually binned a number of contractors and parked projects anyway.

I hope the change brings some hope to those in roles and those who find themselves on the bench due to incorrect and unfair assessment.

[northernladuk]

Or do you think clients are now set-up sufficiently well enough with the new SDS processes & will continue using them, or just put those things on the back-burner & leave any risk with the contractor?

Well nothing should change if they have provided an SDS with an explanation of why. Doesn't matter what format it is in. The client has set out the rules of the engagement. If these don't match an outside contract then the contract is worthless.

The contractor has no choice but self declare inside. If they don't they will be committing fraud in HMRC's eyes and their insurances will be invalid.

IMO these changes have opened the chance for a permatractor that has struggled with all this to properly shoot themselves in the foot. This time next year they've another year of penalties and no insurance.

[Paralytic]

I wonder how many contractors who's clients banned PSCs (with no determination) and have already already moved to Umbrella's have today contacted their agency to see if they can redirect their invoices back to their PSCs.