TCS Cognizant etc

[Lance]

IF?
You’ve never worked with people from these places have you? Come on, admit it...

I have. They are crap. I compete on quality not price.
Buy it cheap. Buy it twice.

Competing with these guys on price is what will your drive rates down.

[JPC]

Sigh. Just another type of luddite.

If it's not machines taking your jobs, then it's immigrants, if not immigrants then it's other cheaper labour.
Tough sh1t if you're skills aren't in high enough demand or there's an over supply. It's a market.
TCS/WiPro/ et al aren't the problem. An imbalance of supply to meet demand is the problem. The market will correct.

Has it ever occured to you that if you're providing a service in a market where supply is limted that the situation will only be temporary?
Or has it ever occured that the reason you've been paid so well previously is just one part of the market that TCS etc are also in?

I take it you mean 'your' skills you illiterate muppet.
Care to explain how a few times ive seen myself included pushed out on a renewal from a smaller agency to one of these including a hefty day rate cut?
Not coincidental the likes of TATA profits have sky rocketed through the decade, why? Nothing to do with market power and margins? Nah' just tough sh't for us. And good sh't for them right? I know business is business but until they came along most agencies took a fair cut not a ruthless one.

[jayn200]

I take it you mean 'your' skills you illiterate muppet.
Care to explain how a few times ive seen myself included pushed out on a renewal from a smaller agency to one of these including a hefty day rate cut?
Not coincidental the likes of TATA profits have sky rocketed through the decade, why? Nothing to do with market power and margins? Nah' just tough sh't for us. And good sh't for them right? I know business is business but until they came along most agencies took a fair cut not a ruthless one.

What's the point of your thread and what's the point of insulting the quoted posters grammar?

What are you trying to achieve? Are you in business or not? If you're in business and a real contractor you need to move with the market. How long have you been contracting for? How much time and effort have you spent building up your skill set? What role, field, industry are you in?

If you're a real contractor you need to get out of the mindset that clients or employers owe you anything. That's a employer/employee relationship. When you're a business providing a service to a client you need to make sure you have a competitive offering.

You have all these permiecontractors who have been basically getting paid 100-150k a year for a really easy relatively low skilled role that has a real market rate of 25-40k a year.

What did you think was going to happen? Did you think that was going to last forever? The smart ones were upskilling while taking advantage of that market but understood it could go at any moment and were happy to be able to earn what they did while they could.

Anyway there is a lot more to worry about right now than a couple indian consulting companies. Just these little things you might have heard of called coronavirus, ir35 reform and brexit.

[SussexSeagull]

As I have said elsewhere my current contract is coming to a slightly premature finish due to the current crisis. I am working through a relatively small consultancy. Now my contract would have allowed them to basically give no notice and have me out the door already but the Consultancy one means they have to give a month or so notice and as there is still work they are keeping us on if they have to pay us.

That is a smaller one standing their ground. The larger ones have the resources to push back against a client trying to break contracts which frankly we don't.

Also once they are involved in a piece of work they take it over and it can be difficult to take back and the free resource will be charged for down the road.

Consultancies aren't a substitute for the flexibility of contractors. If they were clients would have gone straight to them and bypassed us for the last few decades.

[Lance]

I take it you mean 'your' skills you illiterate muppet.
Care to explain how a few times ive seen myself included pushed out on a renewal from a smaller agency to one of these including a hefty day rate cut?
Not coincidental the likes of TATA profits have sky rocketed through the decade, why? Nothing to do with market power and margins? Nah' just tough sh't for us. And good sh't for them right? I know business is business but until they came along most agencies took a fair cut not a ruthless one.

I do apologise for the temporary slip in the quality of my grammar.


You were ‘pushed’ to another agency on a reduced rate. Why? Did the client think you were worth less? Or did the client pay the same but you took less? If the latter then you’re a bit of an idiot to agree to it.

The Indian outsources are well known for paying the going rate for your situation and making you train up the next bob off the boat. The fact they didn’t means either you don’t understand the market (well you clearly don’t if you think it might be fair), or you’re just not very good and they could easily replace you for less.

You can’t, repeat, can’t compete with these guys on price. You need to differentiate yourself, as an individual, with a mix of skills that are not easy to find.
If you’re just another dev who wants to be a bum on a seat, then your market rate is only going lower still.


Relating Tata’s profitability to your own situation is laughable. Have you any idea how large they are? And how small a part of their business IT consulting is?


Time to grow up and accept realities about how the world works.

[mrdonuts]

.

Anyway there is a lot more to worry about right now than a couple indian consulting companies. Just these little things you might have heard of called coronavirus, ir35 reform and brexit.

+ unlimited ICT visas from .....

[rogerfederer]

You have all these permiecontractors who have been basically getting paid 100-150k a year for a really easy relatively low skilled role that has a real market rate of 25-40k a year.

That's a load of rubbish.

Someone with total remuneration, as a contractor, on £150k per annum isn't worth £40k as a permanent member of staff, they are worth much more.

It's retarded thinking like yours that stunts the market and is among the reasons why the UK, particularly England outside London, has become such a tulip place to work. Half the posters here can't remember their last urination, let alone consider trends over the last 5 years, decade, two decades of permanent work and contracting.

The recently abolished IR35 implementation in the private sector was to weed out folk like you who must surely be contracts who should have always been permanent, but companies sensibly chose the lowest risk approach to staffing as is allowed and encouraged by the rules that are in place.

Why do you think that the contractors who earn the most here generate cash from working in multiple countries? The UK has been a dump since the ideological harshest austerity in the developed world and yet morons like BR14 continue to act as if you it's disallowed to even recognise this, let alone discuss it here. The contracting boom you witnessed was mostly in the lower end of the market and enabled a transfer of wealth to shareholders by shafting those who thought they were better off - which was only a temporary short-lived benefit for them - at the expense of roles now being outsourced and therefore day rates and salaries are now even less for similar roles that people don't understandably want to return to.

Real terms wages in England in many places are below the year 1999 when accounting for inflation and increased cost of living, high rental pricing and everything else.

It's about time that the permie mindset here return to permieland, the contractors up their game and then - and only then - can people tell these rubbish service companies to tulip off.

[Old Greg]

I take it you mean 'your' skills you illiterate muppet.
Care to explain how a few times ive seen myself included pushed out on a renewal from a smaller agency to one of these including a hefty day rate cut?
Not coincidental the likes of TATA profits have sky rocketed through the decade, why? Nothing to do with market power and margins? Nah' just tough sh't for us. And good sh't for them right? I know business is business but until they came along most agencies took a fair cut not a ruthless one.

I take it you mean 'I've', you illiterate muppet.

[Old Greg]

I do apologise for the temporary slip in the quality of my grammar.

That was a spelling mistake, not a grammatical mistake.

[JPC]

What's the point of your thread and what's the point of insulting the quoted posters grammar?

What are you trying to achieve? Are you in business or not? If you're in business and a real contractor you need to move with the market. How long have you been contracting for? How much time and effort have you spent building up your skill set? What role, field, industry are you in?

If you're a real contractor you need to get out of the mindset that clients or employers owe you anything. That's a employer/employee relationship. When you're a business providing a service to a client you need to make sure you have a competitive offering.

You have all these permiecontractors who have been basically getting paid 100-150k a year for a really easy relatively low skilled role that has a real market rate of 25-40k a year.

What did you think was going to happen? Did you think that was going to last forever? The smart ones were upskilling while taking advantage of that market but understood it could go at any moment and were happy to be able to earn what they did while they could.

Anyway there is a lot more to worry about right now than a couple indian consulting companies. Just these little things you might have heard of called coronavirus, ir35 reform and brexit.

Fair post fair comments. Believe me i am pretty well uspkilled, come a long way since as you say being paid silly money for y2k monkey work my nan could have executed.

It was a keyboard warrior moment i vented on here. I get it people think 'tough sh't' but still doesn't feel good when you're down on luck and then the rug is whipped out. Wrong place wrong time. Anyway recovered well from that now, but in reflection i still resent them.