Anyone Worried?

[ladymuck]

Never even attempted G-Cloud as it's not an area I can offer anything into.

I have been on DOS for two years and not yet applied for any opportunities. The timing is always wrong but I have been encouraged by the nature of some of the roles posted on there. This round (DOS-4) I signed up for both Specialists and Outcomes just in case a small project came up that I could deliver with a team of people.

[oilboil]

That could be because they use a different framework for inside roles that doesn't often hit the board? I'm on PS gig and we've got a pretty even mix of inside and outsides.

Also the statement that the government as a whole is trying to force everyone inside IR35 but wanting IR35 gigs is a bit flawed. I'm sure the IT department in somewhere like the Forestry Commission that need an body are trying to force PS inside IR35...

You are right - most inside roles are farmed out to hayes or something like that and so hit the monster/jobserve route instead

[northernladuk]

Have you been on G-Cloud before? I have been for 4 years through my own limited company and for 3 years before that I managed the G-Cloud sourcing and application for one of the Big-4 (as well as doing the day job -- why employ 2 people when one can work twice as hard for the same pay?)

I have to say G-Cloud is the hardest framework to make money out of; every opp is massively competitive and without lots of resources you will get "selected-out" almost every time. Even if you get through you then hit the TCS wall and realise that your lowest possible break-even rate is higher than their top-rate (of ocurse they then change control you to hell)

One tip if you do it, make sure you price in hours, and make sure your minimum "gig-length" is set to an hour. This means you always show up in the front pages of the "cheaper resources" and so don't get arbitrarily cut from the process because your daily rate (or minimum contract length) is too high. Equally put in some really strange offering that allows you to charge the earth so if you get the opportunity to charge more you can take it (once you've set your min-max you can't quote more or less even if you and the client agree)

Have you actually got a gig that way? That might get you on the front page but is not the type of work the G-Cloud is set up to source/offer?

They did have an exercise many years ago where they kicked all the contractors off it to clean it up. I'm surprised but then not surprised they've put that effort in and then not continued it so it's straight back to a mess.

[oilboil]

Have you actually got a gig that way? That might get you on the front page but is not the type of work the G-Cloud is set up to source/offer?

They did have an exercise many years ago where they kicked all the contractors off it to clean it up. I'm surprised but then not surprised they've put that effort in and then not continued it so it's straight back to a mess.

I've had work from the framework, it helps if you can frame your services in the way a consultancy would and if you can offer more than just a bum-on-seat programmer or analyst resource. You need to be able to showcase ability to manage complex programs, develop strategies and handle C-level discussions

It's not for everyone, and if you haven't got a decent pocket-book of people you can bring in to team with you working under your limited company then you'll get nowhere, but if you win one of these gigs they are extremely lucrative

[hungry_hog]

To answer the OP - everyone is worried since COVID, actually even before COVID market was already FUBAR

• permies are worried around rubbish pay, no bonus and redundancy
• contactors in contract are worried about getting renewed
• contractor out of contract are worried about finding the next one

I am reflecting on the fact the last time I got a contract without a 'connection' at a client was 2014.
That was therefore the last time an agency was really of use to me.

By the grace of god I found one golden connection (from a ski trip of all things) and that has mushroomed into 3/4 good connections.

I have stayed in touch with a few trusted agencies since then (to test market and for options) and that resulted probably 10 solid leads in that whole time and one offer on a terrible rate.

Most of stuff from outside that circle has been pure garbage, fishing or worse.

[Old Greg]

To answer the OP - everyone is worried since COVID, actually even before COVID market was already FUBAR

• permies are worried around rubbish pay, no bonus and redundancy
• contactors in contract are worried about getting renewed
• contractor out of contract are worried about finding the next one

I am reflecting on the fact the last time I got a contract without a 'connection' at a client was 2014.
That was therefore the last time an agency was really of use to me.

By the grace of god I found one golden connection (from a ski trip of all things) and that has mushroomed into 3/4 good connections.

I have stayed in touch with a few trusted agencies since then (to test market and for options) and that resulted probably 10 solid leads in that whole time and one offer on a terrible rate.

Most of stuff from outside that circle has been pure garbage, fishing or worse.

I have once got a contract via an agency (about 2010). All others have been through contracts or former clients. Maybe that is because I work across a range of roles / skillsets in a single sector. Maybe if you have a specific skillset but could work across any sector, it's different.

[David71]

Have you been on G-Cloud before? I have been for 4 years through my own limited company and for 3 years before that I managed the G-Cloud sourcing and application for one of the Big-4 (as well as doing the day job -- why employ 2 people when one can work twice as hard for the same pay?)

I have to say G-Cloud is the hardest framework to make money out of; every opp is massively competitive and without lots of resources you will get "selected-out" almost every time. Even if you get through you then hit the TCS wall and realise that your lowest possible break-even rate is higher than their top-rate (of ocurse they then change control you to hell)

One tip if you do it, make sure you price in hours, and make sure your minimum "gig-length" is set to an hour. This means you always show up in the front pages of the "cheaper resources" and so don't get arbitrarily cut from the process because your daily rate (or minimum contract length) is too high. Equally put in some really strange offering that allows you to charge the earth so if you get the opportunity to charge more you can take it (once you've set your min-max you can't quote more or less even if you and the client agree)

First time applying for G-Cloud; been on Digital Specialists for a couple of years. I've not got anything from DOS yet but I'm also on the NEPRO framework and I've just been awarded my second contract through them.

As far as G-Cloud, I'm putting my company forward more as a consultancy than a 'bum on seat' which is how I've been working for the last few years; hopefully this will pay off but we'll see

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Yes I am worried

[northernladuk]

Yes I am worried

It's a worrying trend.

[SussexSeagull]

To be honest to not be worried to a certain degree would be deeply illogical at the moment. We genuinely don't know the size and length of recession and recovery we are going to face because the situation is unprecedented.

That said the contracting industry has apparently been over several times before and it seems to rumble on. The romantic in me hopes the ones happy to sit behind the same desk for years on end migrate into permanent employment leaving those of us happy to travel to the other end of the country during the week for several months before shaking hands and doing it again somewhere else but we shall see.