How can we fight back against Infosys, TCS and other Indian consultancies? How can we fight back against Infosys, TCS and other Indian consultancies? - Page 25
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  1. #241

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwah View Post
    Yeah but he made sure it's going to happen
    by delaying it?????
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  2. #242

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    by delaying it?????
    I guess by not scrapping it.

    However IR35 has been the policy of Government (of all sides) for 21 years. This change merely takes it back to how it was supposed to be implemented and if you look at the public sector (where the rules are already in place) you can see that there people have been able to distinguish between what work should be inside and what work needs to be outside.
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

  3. #243

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    It would be barely credible if Rishi had introduced IR35 rather than Gordon Brown.
    All Rishi has done is delay implementation of private sector reforms. Hardly a move done purely for self-interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    by delaying it?????
    You cannot seriously be defending Rishi Sunak?

    While he wasn't necessarily responsible for the current trajectory since the implementation of the public sector off-payroll rules but by Christ he and Boris Johnson used the whips to devastating effect in July to push the off-payroll rules through parliament, likewise to ensure amendments to the loan charge didn't happen.

    Here is a man whose family isn't just wealthy, they are obscenely rich by undercutting IT firms in the UK (and undoubtedly in other countries) and ensuring that contractors can effectively no longer compete with them.

    It's an absolute travesty for anyone impacted by it, whether it's been a long time coming or not.

    What I also dislike is the positioning of contractors in the public mind as tax avoiders. A classic distraction tactic while his family funnels money through Mauritius (see Rishi Sunak's wife owns part of firm that funnelled money through Mauritius | World news | The Guardian), he's got his blind trusts and goodness knows what else. It won't just be Sunak and family, I suspect all of the treasury ministers and entire cabinet have schemes of one form or another in play, all while accusing everyone else of dishonesty.

  4. #244

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    Either way if you are complaining about Infosys or co you are looking in the wrong place.

    Come January I can bring in IT workers on £25k a year from anywhere in the world - that's a lot more than they get in India / Pakistan
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

  5. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    Either way if you are complaining about Infosys or co you are looking in the wrong place.

    Come January I can bring in IT workers on £25k a year from anywhere in the world - that's a lot more than they get in India / Pakistan
    On £25k they’ll probably live in workhouses and be brought to work with busses. Like schools children in the US. Wondering if the busses would have guards also...

    Hey... I think I’ve seen this one.

  6. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShandyDrinker View Post
    You cannot seriously be defending Rishi Sunak?

    While he wasn't necessarily responsible for the current trajectory since the implementation of the public sector off-payroll rules but by Christ he and Boris Johnson used the whips to devastating effect in July to push the off-payroll rules through parliament, likewise to ensure amendments to the loan charge didn't happen.

    Here is a man whose family isn't just wealthy, they are obscenely rich by undercutting IT firms in the UK (and undoubtedly in other countries) and ensuring that contractors can effectively no longer compete with them.

    It's an absolute travesty for anyone impacted by it, whether it's been a long time coming or not.

    What I also dislike is the positioning of contractors in the public mind as tax avoiders. A classic distraction tactic while his family funnels money through Mauritius (see Rishi Sunak's wife owns part of firm that funnelled money through Mauritius | World news | The Guardian), he's got his blind trusts and goodness knows what else. It won't just be Sunak and family, I suspect all of the treasury ministers and entire cabinet have schemes of one form or another in play, all while accusing everyone else of dishonesty.
    I'm neither defending him, nor suggesting what he's done was wrong. You read too much into what I said. I just think that suggesting he is acting or pure self interest is not matched by the facts.

    And jealousy of success is not a good look for an IT contractor. It makes you sound like a whining permie.

    And his offshore tax arrangements are not really relevant to Indian consultancies. I think they're bad. I think someone in a public office should be closing these down not using them. But that is a very different point and better off in general.
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  7. #247

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    The new IR35 rules are irrelevant to InfoSys. InfoSys is already "obscenely rich", and the rules haven't take effect. A large number of contractors work through InfoSys. In fact it will probably hit their profitability because they'll have to reduce their margins. The winner from the new rules is the treasury.
    I'm alright Jack

  8. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    I'm neither defending him, nor suggesting what he's done was wrong. You read too much into what I said. I just think that suggesting he is acting or pure self interest is not matched by the facts.

    And jealousy of success is not a good look for an IT contractor. It makes you sound like a whining permie.

    And his offshore tax arrangements are not really relevant to Indian consultancies. I think they're bad. I think someone in a public office should be closing these down not using them. But that is a very different point and better off in general.
    Jealousy of success? I don't see it that way, I see it as the ability for small contractor companies to be able to compete on a level playing. For many, I suspect especially those living in the north and regularly travelling to places like London for contract work, it will turn something commercially viable into something could well no longer be. Likewise for offshore oil workers, the risk reward may well now become not worth it. If I'm going to sat on an oil/gas platform in the North Sea, I'd sure as hell want a decent payday for it.

    Before becoming a contractor, I spent years working for IT companies pimping me out as a developer to all and sundry watching many people being wealthy off the back of hard work of myself and people like me. Being a contractor meant cutting out these bottom feeding middle men and women. All that has happened now, in the great British tradition, we've added a layer of people taking their pound of flesh.

    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    Either way if you are complaining about Infosys or co you are looking in the wrong place.

    Come January I can bring in IT workers on £25k a year from anywhere in the world - that's a lot more than they get in India / Pakistan
    A completely valid point re Infosys.

    In terms of bringing people into the UK, as I pointed out this very thing to my local MP, rather tongue in cheek the response was that they have to have the offer of a job in the UK before being able to get a work permit, and that assumes they've scored enough points to be able to do so.

    Congratulations to you if you can indeed do this though and make a success of it. It's not exactly helping the IT industry in the UK though is it?
    Last edited by ShandyDrinker; 30th November 2020 at 10:24.

  9. #249

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShandyDrinker View Post
    It's not exactly helping the IT industry in the UK though is it?
    depends who in the IT industry you mean?

    If you mean consultancies then it does.
    If you mean clients then it does.
    If you mean workers already in the UK then it doesn't.
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  10. #250

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    depends who in the IT industry you mean?

    If you mean consultancies then it does.
    If you mean clients then it does.
    If you mean workers already in the UK then it doesn't.
    Hard to argue with any of those. By inference I obviously mean the latter. Given that over 65% of GDP in the UK is reliant on consumer spending, if workers don't have money, it also doesn't help GDP, no matter which way it is spun. It isn't only that, UK industry cannot constantly whine about there being a skills shortage, when there is no incentive to go to university to study for traditionally hard degrees if you aren't going to see a return on investment.

    As I say, kudos to eek if he can skim more off the top by bringing people in from other countries to complete projects, but this does signify everything that is wrong with the UK. Probably not a popular opinion though I expect.

    I'm usually staunchly for the free market, providing everyone is fighting on a level playing field. Having had a lot of interaction with my local MP over the last decade on everything from abuse of Intra-Company Transfers through to the off-payroll rules, I can see that in reality the system is utterly bent with vested interests using the government to bend legislation for their own ends. It's downright depressing to have what you've always suspected to be true to be proven so. I'd say it's enough to make anyone become socialist, but then they're just as bad, but in different ways.

    Although deep for a Monday, the system really does need rebalancing to give the little guy a fighting chance - it's no coincidence that the 1% have become even more obscenely wealthy during the pandemic, while everyone else suffers and will do so for a long time to come.
    Last edited by ShandyDrinker; 30th November 2020 at 11:24.

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