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How can we fight back against Infosys, TCS and other Indian consultancies?

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    Originally posted by pacontracting View Post
    Essentially, what the government has done (and this is rampant in the banking sector), is to remove IR35 from the equation, via the back door. Nearly all banks / financial sector orgs won't even engage with Ltd Co Contractors, and insist on a PAYE structure via an umbrella. This means the org doesn't have to assess IR35 and HMRC gets the relevant tax. The issue now, will change to employment rights of these contractors, as the market matures.

    So certainly, in finance, Ltd Co Contractors have been banned.

    COVID now causes something else; those contractors who would turn down a PAYE contract, now find themselves in financial hardship after such a long period of no work and so have no choice but to accept a permie role or a PAYE/umbrella role.

    Next steps, I think, is that people will either start bailing as soon as one bank/co starts assessing IR35, in a bid to get the best talent, which will have a knock on effect and force other banks to assess if they want to keep their contractors, or Ltd Co contracting in the finance sector will be banned via the back door.

    Having been a Ltd Co contractor, for a number of years, this fact has allowed me to survive the COVID crisis relatively intact due to the fact I am able to build up a warchest for unknown situations like this. Permies that I know have generally kept their jobs but anyone who was unfortunate enough to have been an Umbrella worker has been especially hard hit with the furlough debacle not helping.
    A tad wishful thinking that a contractor can simply become a permie with the click of your fingers. So only real option is to take inside IR35 roles


    Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

    Comment


      Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
      A tad wishful thinking that a contractor can simply become a permie with the click of your fingers. So only real option is to take inside IR35 roles


      Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum
      Not wishful thinking. Just an open admission that they were never really running a business.
      See You Next Tuesday

      Comment


        Originally posted by Lance View Post
        Not wishful thinking. Just an open admission that they were never really running a business.
        Why would I when seeking permanent staff, look at a contractor. A contractor will be after money (having got used to spending it) so is not likely to stay around.
        merely at clientco for the entertainment

        Comment


          Originally posted by eek View Post
          Why would I when seeking permanent staff, look at a contractor. A contractor will be after money (having got used to spending it) so is not likely to stay around.
          Indeed. When I’ve interviewed people for permie roles the obvious ‘contractor who can’t find a contract’ CVs go straight in the bin.
          See You Next Tuesday

          Comment


            Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
            A tad wishful thinking that a contractor can simply become a permie with the click of your fingers. So only real option is to take inside IR35 roles


            Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum
            Certainly in the banking sector, a lot of contractors were offered permie roles before December of last year i.e. go permie or you'll have to go PAYE.

            That doesn't mean the contract (or the work already done) is inside IR35, it just means the bank doesn't have to get involved in assessing the continuation of the work. You can make your own mind up about whether the historical work was inside or not.

            As an example, I specialise in Data Centre migration work. Mosts orgs do a DC migration once every 10 years. There is no perm role for a 'DC migration specialist' so all of my work would be outside. Now, banks are just banning PSC so any future DC migration work has to be done via an umbrella, no IR35 assessment done. All they have stated is there is no SDC.

            Comment


              What is the role of these umbrellas? In my opinion these are just vehicles to help employers avoid their employer responsibilities or is there any other problem that they attempt to solve?

              Comment


                Originally posted by elsergiovolador View Post
                What is the role of these umbrellas? In my opinion these are just vehicles to help employers avoid their employer responsibilities or is there any other problem that they attempt to solve?
                Umbrellas provide a function (payroll) that agencies don't want to perform and have a habit of screwing up...
                merely at clientco for the entertainment

                Comment


                  Originally posted by pacontracting View Post
                  Certainly in the banking sector, a lot of contractors were offered permie roles before December of last year i.e. go permie or you'll have to go PAYE.

                  That doesn't mean the contract (or the work already done) is inside IR35, it just means the bank doesn't have to get involved in assessing the continuation of the work. You can make your own mind up about whether the historical work was inside or not.

                  As an example, I specialise in Data Centre migration work. Mosts orgs do a DC migration once every 10 years. There is no perm role for a 'DC migration specialist' so all of my work would be outside. Now, banks are just banning PSC so any future DC migration work has to be done via an umbrella, no IR35 assessment done. All they have stated is there is no SDC.
                  I think you will find that when they build a team to do a DC migration then outside contractors will be used.
                  The blanket ‘ban’ is not as strict as some make out.

                  Although DC migrations are being replaced by cloud migrations or hybrid cloud strategies so the ‘once every 10 year’ model is going to change.
                  See You Next Tuesday

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by eek View Post
                    Umbrellas provide a function (payroll) that agencies don't want to perform and have a habit of screwing up...
                    Isn't it what accountants are for? It seems like a little bit of a stretch...

                    A) "We just can't run payroll as our accounting keeps screwing up, it's sooo difficult. They literally cannot do maths. Let's have an external company to deal with the payroll. What do you mean they will take our employees?"

                    B) "We cannot have a risk of our employees forming an union and worry about sick pay, maternity leave and other crap and we still cannot get rid of Steve. How can we avoid that? Let's have an external company to deal with employees! No longer our problem! What do you mean we won't need to run payroll as well? You're genius!"

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by pacontracting View Post
                      Certainly in the banking sector, a lot of contractors were offered permie roles before December of last year i.e. go permie or you'll have to go PAYE.

                      That doesn't mean the contract (or the work already done) is inside IR35, it just means the bank doesn't have to get involved in assessing the continuation of the work. You can make your own mind up about whether the historical work was inside or not.

                      As an example, I specialise in Data Centre migration work. Mosts orgs do a DC migration once every 10 years. There is no perm role for a 'DC migration specialist' so all of my work would be outside. Now, banks are just banning PSC so any future DC migration work has to be done via an umbrella, no IR35 assessment done. All they have stated is there is no SDC.
                      It's two different scenarios:

                      - being told "paye or walk" if you are already doing a contract for a client and they know you and it's easier for them to keep you but can't as their HR is now saying no Ltds. (the December example you've given)

                      - not having any contracts and applying for perm roles at companies you've never dealt with before (current reality)

                      Why would any company take an "ex-contractor" on vs someone who's done perm all their life (unless they are absolutely desperate for some niche skills)? The risk is just way lower to take the latter as most (all?) contractors would bail the moment the market picks up or they eventually find a contract.

                      Why do you think the same story of "I've sent 150 applications and got no responses this week" keeps coming up on here?

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