How can we fight back against Infosys, TCS and other Indian consultancies?

[elsergiovolador]

At least give him an example that's not ridiculous and makes you look a bit daft.

His statement only makes sense if one thinks like an employee. It's not how long your company has been providing a service.

Long projects can bear the same (if not more) risk than the short ones.

[northernladuk]

His statement only makes sense if one thinks like an employee. It's not how long your company has been providing a service.

Long projects can bear the same (if not more) risk than the short ones.

I agree to some extent.. Its just your analogy that sucks.

[LondonManc]

His statement only makes sense if one thinks like an employee. It's not how long your company has been providing a service.

Long projects can bear the same (if not more) risk than the short ones.

Regardless of your behaviour at a client, the client's staff can still end up seeing you as part and parcel on a long project.

[elsergiovolador]

Regardless of your behaviour at a client, the client's staff can still end up seeing you as part and parcel on a long project.

That's quite subjective. You can be seen as a part and parcel during a short couple of weeks gig too. If you wear HMRC lenses, then you can see everyone as an employee.

[WTFH]

Would you explain how you worked out the 2 years threshold?

If you have been going to the same hairdresser for 2 years, should you have him or her on your payroll?

This from the same person that tried to argue that if you use a self service check-out, you are an employee. You're not interested in the difference between paying for something and doing it without a contract (e.g. going shopping), and having a contract that pays you.

I picked 2 years as a figure because it's rare for a genuine contractor to be on a project that lasts longer than 2 years.
A person who is paid and spends a long time with one company, maybe they aren't actively looking for roles elsewhere, maybe they are keen to have an annual discussion about rate increase, get into discussions about the next few years of the company business plans, what's the difference between them and an employee?

[Old Greg]

FOG

FTFY

[WTFH]

His statement only makes sense if one thinks like an employee.

It's not what you think, it's your actions. You might argue that you don't "think like an employee", but HMRC aren't interested in how you think. It's your actions that count.
You might "think" you're showing how you take a big risk by staying at the same client, but that doesn't mean you are taking a bigger risk than a contractor who takes their knowledge, experience and quality of work, then applies that at each different client around the world that they work for.

Maybe think back to the question: Why do successful businesses employ successful contractors?
There's one answer:
It's cheaper than getting internal resources trained up to deliver the requirements. The contractor brings their knowledge and experience to get it delivered.

And the risk? If you're not a successful contractor and you don't have the experience, you're not going to deliver the benefits a contractor should bring to the table compared to an employee. You then become a higher cost for that business.

[LondonManc]

That's quite subjective. You can be seen as a part and parcel during a short couple of weeks gig too. If you wear HMRC lenses, then you can see everyone as an employee.

I think you've missed the point.

Day one, you get introduced as a contracting scumbag who is here to fix a problem.

Day 600, you're still a contracting scumbag but you're now regarded as the go-to person for that system because you've not established a permanent go to person for the system. To be outside, you're meant to be the specialist resource that they have not go. Without a handover of at least part of the support/dev responsibility you make yourself part and parcel.

[northernladuk]

That's quite subjective. You can be seen as a part and parcel during a short couple of weeks gig too. If you wear HMRC lenses, then you can see everyone as an employee.

I think you've picked up on a genuine area for discussion re length of time but, by god, you are making an utter balls up of it. No way can you be seen as P&P after a few weeks. It goes against the whole definition even though it's very wooly. There has to be some areas that are safer than others. 2 years isn't an unreasonable figure to pick but yes it could be less.. but two a couple of weeks? You ruin your whole arguement by picking stupid analogies and figures.

Even if it's as grey as how long is part and parcel you've got to but some reasonable boundaries on it to be able to discuss it else it's just pointless.

[Lance]

I think you've missed the point.

Day one, you get introduced as a contracting scumbag who is here to fix a problem.

Day 600, you're still a contracting scumbag but you're now regarded as the go-to person for that system because you've not established a permanent go to person for the system. To be outside, you're meant to be the specialist resource that they have not go. Without a handover of at least part of the support/dev responsibility you make yourself part and parcel.

THIS ^^^^
always handover.
Do another project if they still want you, but always finish.