Going perm or waiting it out - numbers

[jayn200]

Yes, the mental flexibility of dealing with the tulip permanent staff have to deal with. This is why so many contractors freak out as soon as they hear things like "quarterly review"....they lack the mental flexibility and toughness to deal with this tulip. That's why a lot prefer contracting.

I always thought I didn't take tulip. Never thought that was a lack of mental flexibility and always viewed it positively. Had no idea people thought it was a negative trait.

[vwdan]

You're proving my point: smug mode because you don't have to do reviews? Get real.

I was a permie for years and reviews never bothered me as much as they do seem to bother most of contractors. They start freaking out at the idea of having to go through quarterly reviews again? What a bunch of softies. Shows zero mental toughness if that's enough to put you off. These contractors are just a big joke.

PCTNN, in the nicest of ways, you sound dense as a collapsed star at the minute. You realise that "quarterly reviews" or whatever it is is shorthand for *all* the baggage that comes from the employee, employer relationship vs the business to business relationship?

It's having to get holidays approved, it's having to take projects, it's having to attend crap training courses and team building days, it's losing the freedom of tax planning, it's having to negotiate salary. Blah blah blah blah. God I'm bored just writing it.

It's not about mental toughness, it's about knowing what you want out of life. I dunno about you, but work makes up a large portion of my life and I enjoy being happy. To be frank, it sounds like you're piling on some pretty big projection here - what's bothering you?

For a long time, well before the latest rounds of IR35, CUK has span the line to newbies that you should never go contracting for the money. It's a life style. It's like saying I want to live near the beach in Spain and being laughed at for not having the mental toughness to slum it in a bedsit in Glasgow. Like, what, it's a bad thing I don't want to put up with tulip?

As per the 2*take home....that ship has sailed long time ago. Nowadays that difference is way smaller than it was.

Agreed - I could probably near enough match contractor take home with the right job. Though that's mostly due to an increase in perceived seniority during my contract years.

Further proving my point that contracting is as much a mindset as anything else.

[SussexSeagull]

You're proving my point: smug mode because you don't have to do reviews? Get real.

I was a permie for years and reviews never bothered me as much as they do seem to bother most of contractors. They start freaking out at the idea of having to go through quarterly reviews again? What a bunch of softies. Shows zero mental toughness if that's enough to put you off. These contractors are just a big joke.

As per the 2*take home....that ship has sailed long time ago. Nowadays that difference is way smaller than it was.

Just checking, you do know your are on a contractor board which has a large amount of, well, contractors who are quite possibly going to advocate for their professional situation?

[vwdan]

Just checking, you do know your are on a contractor board which has a large amount of, well, contractors who are quite possibly going to advocate for their professional situation?

I think we're going to see more and more of this on the forum - contractors who have taken (or are trying to take) permie jobs, but who aren't really comfortable in the decision, coming on to the board to preach at how it's the best decision and everybody else is silly. Insecurity, basically.

There's already a few like it hanging around like born again Christains outside a strip club.

[BABABlackSheep]

You're proving my point: smug mode because you don't have to do reviews? Get real.

I was a permie for years and reviews never bothered me as much as they do seem to bother most of contractors. They start freaking out at the idea of having to go through quarterly reviews again? What a bunch of softies. Shows zero mental toughness if that's enough to put you off. These contractors are just a big joke.

As per the 2*take home....that ship has sailed long time ago. Nowadays that difference is way smaller than it was.

The bit where I said “very true” was a slight clue that I was in-fact agreeing with you.

Each to their own, but I’ve never met a contractor “ever” who regrets their decision to contract. I’ve met plenty of ex-contractors who have gone permie because of life events, usually family related....and they all whinge like the new babies they have.

As far as the 2*take home. Guess what..I’m a BA...I live in northern England. I get almost the same rate as I would in London, and to get within even 30-40% of my take-home I would need to be the lead BA in the company..sod all that management paperwork.

Let’s keep going..I’m not, but say you’re a contractor with your wife on the payroll with dividends from your ltd company...nice that.

I spent the majority of my working life as a consultant, going where I was told, when I was told. Since going contracting, I can pick and choose my own work, all around home. I can move roles and locations as I want, and it won’t be frowned upon as it would as a permie.

Even inside IR35 is much better than Permie to me. So, permies keep kidding themselves, and there’s a really good forum for them, it’s called “the pub”..because that’s where they love to cry about their jobs every night.

[PCTNN]

Each to their own, but I’ve never met a contractor “ever” who regrets their decision to contract.

That's because you're probably talking about contractors who had years if not decades of outside ir35 contracts, some of them might even have been tax avoiders/permies in disguise who stayed at the same client for years doing bau, earning higher rates than current ones.

I'm sure if you asked contractors who just started contracting say 1 year ago, even 2 years ago, the answers you'd get will be much more mixed because of
- rates getting lower
- ir35
- permie salaries growing

[BABABlackSheep]

That's because you're probably talking about contractors who had years if not decades of outside ir35 contracts, some of them might even have been tax avoiders/permies in disguise who stayed at the same client for years doing bau, earning higher rates than current ones.

I'm sure if you asked contractors who just started contracting say 1 year ago, even 2 years ago, the answers you'd get will be much more mixed because of
- rates getting lower
- ir35
- permie salaries growing

Good points, and yes I’m guilty as charged.

Lets see what happens, supply > demand currently.

IR35 car crash coming again in 6 months.

[eek]

That's because you're probably talking about contractors who had years if not decades of outside ir35 contracts, some of them might even have been tax avoiders/permies in disguise who stayed at the same client for years doing bau, earning higher rates than current ones.

I'm sure if you asked contractors who just started contracting say 1 year ago, even 2 years ago, the answers you'd get will be much more mixed because of
- rates getting lower
- ir35
- permie salaries growing

permie salaries growing? Not from what I'm hearing and seeing.

[PCTNN]

I think we're going to see more and more of this on the forum - contractors who have taken (or are trying to take) permie jobs, but who aren't really comfortable in the decision, coming on to the board to preach at how it's the best decision and everybody else is silly. Insecurity, basically.

So far on here I've read both situations in equal measure: contractors going permie and hating it, and contractors going permie and loving it.
Some people have mental flexibility and can enjoy both, some others just can't. No big deal.

[vwdan]

So far on here I've read both situations in equal measure: contractors going permie and hating it, and contractors going permie and loving it.

See, for a minute there I thought you were going to continue on to say something sensible.

some people have mental flexibility and can enjoy both, some others just can't. No big deal.

But oh well, my fault for getting my hopes up. The idea that somebody who doesn't enjoy permie vs contract simply isn't "mentally flexible" enough is just such a farcical, pathetic world view that it's hard to know where to start. I do seriously suspect it's born out of a serious amount of insecurity on your part, however.

Go permie if you want. I hope it works out for you - after all, it does for the majority of the population. I don't think any less of you for doing so, but I think you're an absolute moron for trying so hard to prove how much "better" you are for it.