New 9 month contract offer outside IR35 New 9 month contract offer outside IR35
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Posts 1 to 10 of 16
  1. #1

    Nervous Newbie


    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    2

    Question New 9 month contract offer outside IR35

    Have been offered a new 9-month contract starting 1st December with a private sector client (through an agency), it's outside IR35

    All sounds good but the client isn't very experienced with using a contractor and the agency will say anything! Should I be worried about the contract going into tax-year 2021/22?

    Should I sign or ask for a contract until the end of tax year 2020/21 and then review?

  2. #2

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    45,051

    Default

    We don't really know. The best you can do is carry out the proper diligence on the contract, make sure you know IR35 very well and don't shoot yourself in the foot and get the proper insurances.

    Even if the very worst happens in April and clients admits you are all inside (which you should be able to guess after a couple of weeks at the client using your IR35 knowledge) then your exposure is only a few months. You'll be peanuts to HMRC. There is talk they won't come after contracts, just the agencies/clients but I'm not sure. There are many contractors out there that rather stupidly went inside last April but didn't and will go inside again this April with 3, 4 or 5 years behind them. They are ****ed and will be the top of HMRC's list.

    Approach this contract carefully with all the proper diligence in place and then re-asses in April. Now is not the time to be turning any work down IMO.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  3. #3

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    45,051

    Default

    That said, if the contract fails IR35 and they just change it to make it pass and then you get on site and find your RoS is buggered and they want to Direct and Control you then you are going to have to re-assess very quickly. Cross that bridge when you get to it.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  4. #4

    Double Godlike!


    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Work-life balance nirvana
    Posts
    12,295

    Default

    Contract and working practices review by professional to confirm status.

    Once you’re in there and have a good relationship with your hiring manager, talk about IR35 with them. Explain why yours is outside compared to others, if it indeed is.
    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

  5. #5

    Godlike

    Lance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    home
    Posts
    5,825

    Default

    Get the contract reviewed first up.

    Then determine whether the client is large enough such that they make the determination post April.
    If they are then you may want to check, after you get your feet under the table, what the post April status will be? What is their determination process? Have the started? Can you be involved?

    If they are small then you need to be carrying on as usual. You are likely to be at very low risk of investigation as HMRC have bigger fish to fry. Although if the client has been abusing the furlough scheme then HMRC may be looking very closely at all their affairs. Make sure you're squeaky clean.
    See You Next Tuesday

  6. #6

    Still gathering requirements...


    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oldbencjw View Post
    Have been offered a new 9-month contract starting 1st December with a private sector client (through an agency), it's outside IR35

    All sounds good but the client isn't very experienced with using a contractor and the agency will say anything! Should I be worried about the contract going into tax-year 2021/22?

    Should I sign or ask for a contract until the end of tax year 2020/21 and then review?
    From April the client makes the determination. If they say it's outside and it turns out it's inside after investigation, they are liable not you. So you are all good if they are happy to tell you you're outside.
    Agencies are now insuring themself from ir35 investigations. So things will be quite normal...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    Get the contract reviewed first up.
    if you are investigated, for before April work, you need to show that you've done due diligence to make sure the role is outside (like using QDOS for example)
    Last edited by GitMaster69; 26th November 2020 at 14:12.

  7. #7

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    45,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GitMaster69 View Post

    if you are investigated, for before April work, you need to show that you've done due diligence to make sure the role is outside (like using QDOS for example)
    You will need a hell of a lot more than that. You need to have carried out diligence to make sure it is definitely outside IR35. Also if that diligence is just having QDOS check it then that's not going to work either. They check the contract, they can't do the WP so if the OP goes on site and starts acting like a perm then all that diligence will be for nothing.

    Just showing you carried out some diligence won't cut it.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  8. #8

    Still gathering requirements...


    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    You will need a hell of a lot more than that. You need to have carried out diligence to make sure it is definitely outside IR35. Also if that diligence is just having QDOS check it then that's not going to work either. They check the contract, they can't do the WP so if the OP goes on site and starts acting like a perm then all that diligence will be for nothing.

    Just showing you carried out some diligence won't cut it.
    Well if it gets to a stage where you are investigated , you’re pretty much ****ed. My friend was revenge investigated for not paying his ltd tax (got hit by a 2008 crisis and didn’t have money for CT - so he tried to close his ltd without paying it) hmrc in return investigated him and gave him nice cheque from which he hasn’t recovered for years.

    Conclusion - pay your taxes folks and pay off your bbl
    Last edited by GitMaster69; 26th November 2020 at 17:00.

  9. #9

    Double Godlike!


    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Work-life balance nirvana
    Posts
    12,295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    You will need a hell of a lot more than that. You need to have carried out diligence to make sure it is definitely outside IR35. Also if that diligence is just having QDOS check it then that's not going to work either. They check the contract, they can't do the WP so if the OP goes on site and starts acting like a perm then all that diligence will be for nothing.

    Just showing you carried out some diligence won't cut it.
    You're losing it pal. You're quoting someone say that due diligence is a must and then say then need to do more than that and carry out due diligence.

    OP, I think what NLUK means is that due diligence extends beyond checking the pieces of paper that link you to the client and getting them reviewed.

    Consider the following:
    - collect any and all evidence of you being treated differently to a permie because you're a contractor. For example, social nights out where contractors have to pay but permies go free.
    - think as a supplier, not an employee. Are you being paid to do that piece of work they've asked of you because it's in your contracted deliverables?
    - behave as a third party consultant; promote brand you. If something isn't in your deliverables but they talk to you about it, explain politely that it's not what you were brought in for but you're happy to quote for it as part of further deliverables and the priorities of that versus your original contracted work can be negotiated too.
    - don't take up any employee freebies, no matter how tempting. I don't mean the free pens that end up on every desk, but more the employee discounts that can pop up in canteens, etc.
    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

  10. #10

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    45,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LondonManc View Post
    You're losing it pal. You're quoting someone say that due diligence is a must and then say then need to do more than that and carry out due diligence.
    No I'm not. Git has a history of questionable posts with lack of detail. There are a vast number of contractors out there that think sending their contract of to QDOS is all that they need to do and once it's passed they turn up on site and act like permies. I was clarrifying that just QDOS is not due diligence. Maybe I got a bit tripped over with terms at worst but hardly losing it.
    OP, I think what NLUK means is that due diligence extends beyond checking the pieces of paper that link you to the client and getting them reviewed.

    Consider the following:
    - collect any and all evidence of you being treated differently to a permie because you're a contractor. For example, social nights out where contractors have to pay but permies go free.
    - think as a supplier, not an employee. Are you being paid to do that piece of work they've asked of you because it's in your contracted deliverables?
    - behave as a third party consultant; promote brand you. If something isn't in your deliverables but they talk to you about it, explain politely that it's not what you were brought in for but you're happy to quote for it as part of further deliverables and the priorities of that versus your original contracted work can be negotiated too.
    - don't take up any employee freebies, no matter how tempting. I don't mean the free pens that end up on every desk, but more the employee discounts that can pop up in canteens, etc.
    And that is exactly what I meant and said.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •