IR35 Confusion -

[jamesbrown]

Taking this a step further, if you were a proper consultancy with permies, lets say you're billing 3 permies and a director in at £1k/day each.

Proper consultancies have employees, not deemed employees, and those employees aren't (in general) shareholders with a 5% or greater shareholding in the company, so the question doesn't even arise. It's fine to run a proper consultancy with employees. It isn't fine to apply a deemed payment that is not a deemed payment (say, 50% of a deemed payment).

[WTFH]

What has permanent roles got to do with IR35..

I *think* what he means is what percentage of jobs will be advertised as permanent roles, compared with those advertised as outside IR35, but forget about any that are inside.

So if there are 100 jobs, 5 are outside, 50 are inside and 45 are permanent, is the answer he's expecting 90% permanent (45/(45+5)) or 45% permanent (45/(45+5+50))

But the non-statistical answer is: no one knows. If you've got a contract/job and are happy with how much you're making from it, then stick with it. If you're not happy, look elsewhere. If it's a contract that goes on after April, then try to work out how much you might be making then, and decide if you're happy with it.

[eek]

I *think* what he means is what percentage of jobs will be advertised as permanent roles, compared with those advertised as outside IR35, but forget about any that are inside.

So if there are 100 jobs, 5 are outside, 50 are inside and 45 are permanent, is the answer he's expecting 90% permanent (45/(45+5)) or 45% permanent (45/(45+5+50))

But the non-statistical answer is: no one knows. If you've got a contract/job and are happy with how much you're making from it, then stick with it. If you're not happy, look elsewhere. If it's a contract that goes on after April, then try to work out how much you might be making then, and decide if you're happy with it.

The thing is I can't see the number of permanent jobs changing - if I need someone on a permanent basis I employ someone.

If I need a temporary worker - I employ temporary workers.

[Lance]

The thing is I can't see the number of permanent jobs changing - if I need someone on a permanent basis I employ someone.

If I need a temporary worker - I employ temporary workers.

exactly this.


If anyone thinks that the client choice of perm or contractor is based on IR35 (or other tax considerations), that is when the person thinking it should have been inside all along. And that is also the reason why IR35 exists in the first place. The boundary between perm and contract is more than just tax (or should be).

[pauljh]

Taking this a step further, if you were a proper consultancy with permies, lets say you're billing 3 permies and a director in at £1k/day each.

Each permie gets - say £300/day and the director takes like £1k/day all as PAYE. I'm not sure how you'd demonstrate that you're all inside IR35 without showing pay checks, which would show margins etc and probably be bad from a business perspective - but that's an aside.

Yes they've said they will need to see PAYE slips, not great, but not much choice.

Let's say other costs for the permies run to £200 each/day. That leaves ~ £500 x 3 employees x 20 billable days = ~ £30k - are we saying that's not available as a dividend either, or is it only allowable as a dividend to someone who doesn't work on that customer? I can't see how that could work either, what would stop a company with 2 consultants working for 2 separate clients, cross billing?

My accountant it still struggling to work this out..

[northernladuk]

My accountant it still struggling to work this out..

Bearing in mind getting the facts out of you is like pulling teeth I'm hardly surprised by this.

[eek]

Bearing in mind getting the facts out of you is like pulling teeth I'm hardly surprised by this.

Bearing in mind even after being given very expensive advice, he clutches to the posts of someone who is merely asking questions because it seems to offer a hope that actually doesn't exist.

If it's inside IR35 keep as far away from it as possible and bring in permanent staff to do the work you did.

[pauljh]

Bearing in mind getting the facts out of you is like pulling teeth I'm hardly surprised by this.

Information had 0.000001%, single mind uninformed opinion and pointless reply made 100%.

[pauljh]

Bearing in mind even after being given very expensive advice, he clutches to the posts of someone who is merely asking questions because it seems to offer a hope that actually doesn't exist.

Or maybe just maybe I'm collating all sides of peoples "informed" opinions to come to a concrete one (or as concrete as it can be).

If it's inside IR35 keep as far away from it as possible and bring in permanent staff to do the work you did.

If only we all had that luxury....

[Lance]

Or maybe just maybe I'm collating all sides of peoples "informed" opinions to come to a concrete one (or as concrete as it can be).

The problem with this is that if you collate them all to find an answer it will be wrong.
It's like asking everyone what their favourite colour is, then mixing all those colours together. You'll get brown.....