• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Beginner BUSINESS ANALYST .....with added questions!

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Beginner BUSINESS ANALYST .....with added questions!

    Im currently a permie considering making the leap to contracting but a little unsure whether its a good move or not.

    I work as a Senior Buisiness Analyst in Leeds and was wondering if any experienced people could help me with some advice.

    As the job role of BA covers a multitude of sins is it realistic to contract as a BA? BAs also tend to be treated as more of a "resource" on a project (as opposed to a Project Manager who delivers a project) which makes me think it will more than likely fall within IR35, is this a valid assumption?

    1) What skills are in demand?

    2) Do your contracts typically fall within IR35?

    3) Do you work for your own Ltd company or an Umbrella?

    4) Whats the market like for Business Analyst jobs at the moment (Aug 10)?

    5) How do you cope with badly run projects and poor client side management?

    Hope someone can offer some advice,

    Thanks

    Ben
    Last edited by Contractor UK; 23 December 2015, 16:49.

    #2
    Originally posted by BentheBA View Post

    As the job role of BA covers a multitude of sins is it realistic to contract as a BA? BAs also tend to be treated as more of a "resource" on a project (as opposed to a Project Manager who delivers a project) which makes me think it will more than likely fall within IR35, is this a valid assumption?
    Absolutely not. Couldn't be any wider of the mark if you tried. IR35 is about your working conditions with the client. Are you controlled (hidden permie) or can you deliver a service as a ltd. I suggest you read the link at the right as you have got this very wrong.

    2) Do your contracts typically fall within IR35?
    Yes. That is generally what contracting is about. As you seem to not have a grasp on IR35 am not sure what you are giong to get asking this question at this time.

    3) Do you work for your own Ltd company or an Umbrella?
    This depends on personal cirumstances and your IR35 status so just asking this question isn't any use to you really. Need to read up on both, understand them apply the one that counts to your situation.

    4) Whats the market like for BAs at the moment (Aug 10)?
    You are best placed to answer this as people in roles won't be watching the job sites. Spend some time searching job sites over the next week or so and you should have a better answer

    5) How do you cope with badly run projects and poor client side management?
    You get your head down, widen your shoulders, put up, shut up and invoice invoice invoice.

    Hope this helps but can't see how some of these questions are really going to help you to be honest. You didn't understand IR35 and some of them are about individual situations so you don't know if they will apply to you until you start picking and applying for roles.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Further to which, a BA who can't be arsed to do some fairly obvious basic research isn't going to find a lot of work as a contractor...

      HTH
      Blog? What blog...?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by malvolio View Post
        Further to which, a BA who can't be arsed to do some fairly obvious basic research isn't going to find a lot of work as a contractor...

        HTH
        I thought posting here as a self proclaimed beginner with a question would count as basic research?

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks northernladuk, (im still getting my head round IR35)

          I may have worded my question badly, I was sort of hoping for a rough idea based on peoples experience as a BA in terms of IR35 and contracting as a BA in general.

          I worked with a couple of contract BAs a while ago, they came in and were indistinguishable from permanent employees (whereas some of the PMs werent, i.e worked different hours and had clear contractual deliverables). I got the impression that a BA would be more likely to be a "disguised" employee and hence typically be a role that would get caught because of this.

          However im getting the impression that it all depends on the contract...I guess im just looking for anecdotes from the experienced in terms of being a BA.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by BentheBA View Post
            1) What skills are in demand?

            2) Do your contracts typically fall within IR35?

            3) Do you work for your own Ltd company or an Umbrella?

            4) Whats the market like for BAs at the moment (Aug 10)?

            5) How do you cope with badly run projects and poor client side management?
            1) See business analyst jobsite, jobserve, monster etc.

            2) My contract was reviewed and declared outside but it's a grey area. In my opinion, the thing that determines your IR35 status is your attitude to risk.It's so complex that there is no chance of a layman like myself understanding the IR35 rules so I just accept the judgement that I'm outside. In the unlikely event that I get investigated and the worst case is that I'm found to be inside, I'll plead ignorance and just pay the tax I'd avoided paying. I don't see how they can penalise someone for their IR35 status, the rules are just too muddy.

            3) LTD. It's more admin but if you are billing over 30k (+VAT) in the next year then it's worth it. If you are only doing a 3 month contract then going back to permie or not sure if you are in it for the long haul then stick with umbrella - hardly any admin, really easy but you get stung for taxes big time. For an umbrella, look for generous expenses policy (you can only claim what you acutally spend but it makes it easier) and a fixed monthly fee NOT a percentage . If you go LTD then whatever you do, get an accountancy package that sorts out all the startup and admin for you otherwise you'll be back here asking stupid questions about how to setup a bank account or wailing that you've got yourself in a big old mess. Check out the PCG or one of the big accountants mentioned on the board and they will get you sorted.

            4) You will never get a positive answer to that question here. We don't want any competition at the trough. Don't go contracting, it's terrible. There's no work, etc. See also, the answer to 1) above and make up your own mind.

            5) Same as in permie land. Keep your head down, get your timesheets signed and think of the money.

            Your hourly rate as a contractor is annual salary / 1,000. Seems generous but remember there is no pension, sick, annual leave, job security or notice period. If you are a spender who is always overdrawn at the bank then this game is not for you, you need 3 to 6 months living money in the "war chest" in case you end up out of work.

            Good luck!
            Last edited by Contractor UK; 31 March 2017, 21:15.
            Free advice and opinions - refunds are available if you are not 100% satisfied.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by BentheBA View Post
              I thought posting here as a self proclaimed beginner with a question would count as basic research?
              I think the fact you have asked questions that you can find out yourself instead of asking unqualified strangers doesn't really count as research, its more in the asking a question instead of looking yourself realm. Some of the questions as pointed out can be done by only you.#

              On the IR35 and deliverables bit....

              It doesn't matter WHAT you do, it's HOW you do it that makes the difference. You could be doing anything from sweeping the floor to directing a business. As long as you watch out for client control and dictate your own terms where possible it doesn't matter what you do. You can still negotiate clear deliverables. 'To provide BA services to the PM during the duration of Project X' is a perfectly clear deliverable.

              I think you are confusing the PM's deliverables as well. A contract PM has two sets of deliverables. He has a set around being a contract PM. These are to manage a project, deliver it on time, act professionally etc This is his deliverable to the agent/client for his services... Once enganged he has project deliverables i.e. install server, plan training, sign off gates it are not the same as the ones he is delivering to his contract. The latter are nothing to do with IR35. It is only the way he delivers HIS services to the client that is covered by IR35.

              The other BA's might appear not to be indistiguishable to permies as they can go along with working times, locations etc but they cannot be held to them. They come in at permie times because they choose to, permies often cannot. You do not know the terms of their contract so cannot asses IR35 just because they appear to be working the same. Granted it isn't a good start but there is nothing wrong with appearing to the rest of the office to slot in. What you will learn from watching these boards however there are many people that cannot grasp the concept of running a business and are 9 -5 contractors that don't have a clue so are quite possibly failing IR35 badly.

              You need really need to think about these things if you are going to go contracting. If you are struggling so badly to separate these and think like a business I think you need to stay permie a bit longer.
              Last edited by northernladuk; 1 September 2010, 08:40.
              'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by BentheBA View Post
                I thought posting here as a self proclaimed beginner with a question would count as basic research?
                Basic research, but not competent research...

                Sadly, I'm at a level where I employ BAs and PMs so I have something of an idea of how I expect them to approach their work. My point is twofold: don't ask questions that betray a depth of ignorance based on making no effort to find out the answers for yourself and expecting others to do it for you, and if you can't hack some direct honest criticism you probably won't survive being a contractor.

                95% of the questions you want answering can be found in the PCG Guide to Freelancing (hint: it's on their website) which I suggest you read carefully. The ones about market and employability are, as others have said, unanswerable. However, ask intelligent quetions and you will get very good, accurate answers.

                HTH
                Blog? What blog...?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Malvolio

                  Appreciate your response, as I said they are fairly simple questions and were only intended to get a rough idea of what other people are doing specifically in the Business Analyst community. Given the answer appears to be, "could be anything" and "it depends" that’s fair enough, however Wanderers response was helpful.

                  As you recruit BA's , what are the key skills you look for and what makes a good contractor BA in your eyes? (clearly research and asking the right questions is the first one!) but what else do you deem as important as it sounds like you’ve have a few bad BA's and PM's in your time.

                  Thanks northernladuk

                  In terms of taking “advice” from unqualified people, this forum is only one route Im pursuing in trying to understand the ins and out. Having not actually entered the contract market, Im still in the “Business Analysis” phase of my thinking and learning. I just appreciate an experienced opinion and I wont be taking everything said as gospel (especially given Wanderers comments above J). Your comments about IR35 have made me take a second look, so that’s helped.

                  I feel fairly clear on the separation of 9-5 vs running a business and delivering a service. Personally Id be happier working for an organisation that expected tangible deliverables based on my specific skills and approach for a specific duration vs a 9-5 person at a seat. The whole ambiguity around IR35 isnt helping when it comes to understanding the relationship with a third party (via an agency) and the subsequent tax implications.

                  I guess when it comes to “control” the BA usually works with a client side PM and that relationship is important. Im just trying to get my head around the scenario of a PM having control over how the BA does the work e.g. insisting the BA uses a clients standard requirements templates and then organising workshops for the BA to attend as opposed to the BA using his own templates and organising his own workshops, the PM’s on a lot of the* projects Ive worked on can be very “controlling” with limited manoeuvre and just wondered if this was typically the case for others?.

                  If I entered into a relationship with a third party and they insist I do it “their way” then Id feel that was IR35 territory. If I had scope to do it “my way” then it would be the opposite. Although IR35 wording is really vague so I guess Im looking for an experienced view like yourself.

                  I get the impression that some contract BAs (based on working with them) are happy just to do what they are told, use the subsidised canteen and work 9-5 (head down and all that….) which personally Im trying to avoid. But not quite sure how (apart from I think I can manage to avoid a canteen)?, obviously the first place to start is the contract negotiation stage but given other posts on the forum and agency standard contracts Im unclear how this could be achieved for a BA. I guess naming the specific deliverable, timescale in the contract is a start. ???

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Firstly, it doesn't matter what you do for a living, being a contractor is a separate busines activity with its own rules. Being a BA is nothing different (hell, I was one once and most of what I do still has an element of BA work). Hence read the PCG Guide first so you understand what I mean properly. You might even get a better insight into IR35 including what's meant by "Control" (or you could Google "The potted guide to IR35" for a starter course)

                    Secondly, if I'm hiring anyone as a contractor I don't give a stuff about career history or personal development and only a minor stuff for how well you will or won't fit into the existing team. I do care about what you've actually delivered yourself in your field - not what you've "assisted with" or "contributed to", not what you've been taught and what courses you've passed, but what you have done. That goes for any contractor in any field; nobody is buying you, they are buying a set of skills and competencies. But then I'm a contractor myself: most clients will hire through Human Remains and so will have a personnel-biased view on things, which is stupid but sadly unavoidable.
                    Blog? What blog...?

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X