Problems - IT Recruitment Solutions / Contract Rec Solutions / RECSOL / Altrincham

[pojka]

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[NotAllThere]

So, what have you done in the way of debt recovery?

[nomadd]

Had far too much patience, now solicitors letter has gone out with no response at all. I'm expecting the next step to be legal action to obtain a court order but am also mindful that CRS itself is unlikely to have any assets.. Any suggestions eagerly awaited!

Why did you let this go on for 3 months? TBH, I would have been very suspicious once the invoice was more than a week overdue. Even if you were getting paid monthly in arrears, that still equates to no more than 1 month behind + an extra week.

Honestly, I'm not trying to "kick a man whilst he's down" here, but I just can't understand how you continued to work for 3+ months when it was clear the agency weren't paying up. And you've only got to read the stories in the national press about "bankrupt ghost towns" in the UK to realise that Altrincham has the worst figures for local business failures in the entire UK (I should know, I'm from the area, and we had a big debate about it on one of the other forums a couple of months back when the press stories hit.)

Anyway, fingers crossed for you in that you'll get at least some of it back. You are at least now doing the right thing and putting some real pressure on.

[rd409]

Sorry if I am being ignorant here. But do people in here seriously trust agencies for their money for that long period. I mean, I only had one instance where the payment was delayed by a couple of weeks, but that was due to set up of the contract, and rectified straight away. I dont think the company would have any assets at all. As you have said earlier, there are multiple companies working from the same office, I guess it was a framework set up so that if something goes wrong, let one of the company go down, and others carry on working normally.But I think if the director of a company is on board of another companies as well, then you can get your money from another company. But your solicitor should be the best person to deal with it.
Good luck for the recovery of your money.

[craig1]

Had far too much patience, now solicitors letter has gone out with no response at all. I'm expecting the next step to be legal action to obtain a court order but am also mindful that CRS itself is unlikely to have any assets.. Any suggestions eagerly awaited!

It all depends on what has happened to the money. If they go bust then try to hide behind limited liability they can be investigated for wrongful/fraudulent trading if they've improperly disposed of money that should have gone to creditors.

If they're still trading, you can make a winding up petition and in that petition ask for the directors to contribute personally to the debts of the company.
If they've stopped trading but have moved money out of the company to avoid paying creditors then you can seek to have any such transactions set aside and recovered by the liquidator.

Also, check all your documents. If a director of the company has promised to pay while they know the business is insolvent then you can ask a court to treat that as a personal guarantee.

In short though, you really need to see a lawyer. Preferably an insolvency or commercial one, unfortunately they don't come cheap. If you're serious about getting your money back, you can try to arrange a no-win, no-fee arrangement or join in with other creditors to instruct one lawyer to represent you all.

[Clippy]

I would investigate if there is any way you can recover your money from Steve Dale personally.

If so, one option would be if he is a homeowner, taking a charge out against his home.

That way, if he ever puts his house up for sale, he won't be able to proceed until he dis-charges this charge i.e. pays you what he owes.

It could be a long game and, as I said, only if you can somehow apply this debt to him personally.

Father did it against someone who stole his deposit when he bought a property at auction.

When the guy tried to re-sell the property a few years later, he found he couldn't and came out of the woodwork begging my father to remove the charge.

My father found a very good solicitor who recovered all his money, interest plus all associated costs.

Not bad considering he had pretty much written this money (c£20k) off.

[SueEllen]

I'll be much more cynical in the future, obviously. And will be doing everything I can to try to retrieve the money, as mentioned they are basically still operating with different names, and this thread is partly here to draw attention to those other names. They are still actively seeking contractors and f/t candidates.

Just for future reference if you go direct with companies they may give you 30 day payment terms however never accept this from an agency.

An agency should pay you within 7-14 calendar days of you submitting the invoice.

In terms of going direct with companies check their previous years annual accounts for turnover etc as credit checks just show that the company is credit worthy, which lots of companies are even if they have never sold anything. (I've had 2 telecoms companies as direct clients that went into administration one burnt me the other one didn't. )

In terms of getting the money back I would personally use a debt recovery company rather than a solicitor and taking his company to court as it's quicker so he has less time to do dodgy (but legal stuff to avoid paying) and they will have enough experience to know when to give up.

Yes you have to pay them part of what they recover but as the saying goes 50% of something is better than 50% of nothing. ( Their fees aren't this high) Do a search as some names have been mentioned before or hopefully someone else will post one who works in the NW.

[craig1]

Just for future reference if you go direct with companies they may give you 30 day payment terms however never accept this from an agency.

An agency should pay you within 7-14 calendar days of you submitting the invoice.

In terms of going direct with companies check their previous years annual accounts for turnover etc as credit checks just show that the company is credit worthy, which lots of companies are even if they have never sold anything. (I've had 2 telecoms companies as direct clients that went into administration one burnt me the other one didn't. )

I do the same with agencies, especially those I've never heard of. Costs under £2-3 to get all the docs you'll need to make a decision and free to see the real basics. Search Companies House. The company in question here was set up in March 2010. For that agency, if I even went with them, I'd be insisting on fully opted-in 7 day terms with immediate calls if it's not in on the 7th calendar day.

[ascender]

Good luck, I hope you get this resolved.

More and more often I'm finding that agencies are looking to pay a minimum of 28 days from date of your invoice and often then its sent BACS to add another few days on. I notice a couple of posts saying they won't accept this, but what are the options in the real world other than passing on the contract? I've not once found an agency who are willing to change their payment terms.

[nomadd]

Good luck, I hope you get this resolved.

More and more often I'm finding that agencies are looking to pay a minimum of 28 days from date of your invoice and often then its sent BACS to add another few days on. I notice a couple of posts saying they won't accept this, but what are the options in the real world other than passing on the contract? I've not once found an agency who are willing to change their payment terms.

Depends... How far have you ever pushed it?

Two contracts back, I had a smallish agency who refused to alter the 30 day terms. I simply thanked them for their time and wished them the best of luck with the client. Had a phone call back - with the terms I was asking for - in less than 10 minutes. This was the same agency who tried to reduce the rate at every renewal; again, I thanked them for their time and wished them the best with the client. Rate reductions were always forgotten about at that point...

My current agency does 30 day terms also. But then they are huge and manage all the contractors with an on-site team within the IB I work for; all other agencies must come via them. They have found me my last two contracts, no gaps in between, and so far have helped me bring in about £250k; and that looks set to continue. So, in this case, I didn't bother pushing the 30 day terms at all.

You've got to look at each contract/agency on it's own merits and decide how far you are prepared to push things. Remember, no-one can force you to sign; it's your decision whether you walk or not. It's just that sometimes it's worth accepting the 'risk' of 30 day payment if that risk looks low and the potential rewards look high.