They DO NOT need to hold a copy of your passport if you are opted out.

[nomadd]

How does that add value to the client? They go through the process of sifting CVs, interviews, find someone they want, then don't get them because of an admin issue at your side, so have to go through the process again? Who is this helping exactly?

Er, the client never gets to "sift". The agent dumps your cv in the bin at step one.

[The Agents View]

Er, the client never gets to "sift". The agent dumps your cv in the bin at step one.

The whole point of using an agency is that they then don't HAVE to sift. 2 or 3 carefully selected CV's, interview both, and choose the one you want is how it SHOULD work.

However, in repsonse to the previous post - trust me - nobody wants a placement to fall out because of a lack of passport, but it's a risk you take. Better for it to fall out, than to have tonnes of bad press because you've given work to someone without the right to work in the country.

All it is, is risk minimisation - Something which the recruitment industry pretty good at - as risk usually = money.

[rd409]

The whole point of using an agency is that they then don't HAVE to sift. 2 or 3 carefully selected CV's, interview both, and choose the one you want is how it SHOULD work.

However, in repsonse to the previous post - trust me - nobody wants a placement to fall out because of a lack of passport, but it's a risk you take. Better for it to fall out, than to have tonnes of bad press because you've given work to someone without the right to work in the country.

All it is, is risk minimisation - Something which the recruitment industry pretty good at - as risk usually = money.

So if I give you a copy of my passport, and prove I am eligible to work in UK, and then use the substitute clause, and send in someone who doesn’t have a right to work in UK, would you as a part of the contract claim responsibility, or shrug off everything to the limited company?

[SorenLorensen]

So if I give you a copy of my passport, and prove I am eligible to work in UK, and then use the substitute clause, and send in someone who doesn’t have a right to work in UK, would you as a part of the contract claim responsibility, or shrug off everything to the limited company?

It's a very good point, and one that the agencies are missing. They're not engaging us, they are engaging our companies.

[The Agents View]

So if I give you a copy of my passport, and prove I am eligible to work in UK, and then use the substitute clause, and send in someone who doesn’t have a right to work in UK, would you as a part of the contract claim responsibility, or shrug off everything to the limited company?

Nope - I'd want to see the persons Passport. I'd also want full confirmation that the client is happy for it to happen. Oddly, I've been dealing with this exact scenario today.

[Ardesco]

Well in this case, it has to actually be illegal. Which asking for, and having a copy of your passport, is not.

The Passport is subject to Crown copyright protection under section 163 of the
Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. This means that it may not lawfully be
reproduced without the prior permission of the Controller of Her Majesty’s Stationery
Office (HMSO), an official who as Queen’s Printer and Queen’s Printer for Scotland
manages Crown copyright on behalf of Her Majesty under the terms of Letters Patent.
HMSO’s Information Policy Division administers Crown copyright on behalf of the
Controller.

Have you got permission of HMSO to hold copies of passports then (And no other legislation suggesting you use a passport to validate identity doesn't mean you don't have to have the permission of HMSO to start copying them willy nilly)?

How do you deal with contractors who don't have passports? There is no legal requirement for a UK National to even own a passport.

How exactly is your substitution clause written in your contracts? Doesn't sound like one that is IR35 friendly at the moment....

[craig1]

Have you got permission of HMSO to hold copies of passports then (And no other legislation suggesting you use a passport to validate identity doesn't mean you don't have to have the permission of HMSO to start copying them willy nilly)?

How do you deal with contractors who don't have passports? There is no legal requirement for a UK National to even own a passport.

How exactly is your substitution clause written in your contracts? Doesn't sound like one that is IR35 friendly at the moment....

The copyright bit would fall under fair use provisions.

Edit: On the subject, why would anyone really care really about giving an agency a copy of their passport photo sheet? They have far more sensitive information on me than anything contained in that, from my home details to working hours to bank details to my employment record. If that's all that's standing in the way of me getting a nice contract then it's the very, very least of my worries.

[Wanderer]

Have you got permission of HMSO to hold copies of passports then (And no other legislation suggesting you use a passport to validate identity doesn't mean you don't have to have the permission of HMSO to start copying them willy nilly)?

I guess I've had a lot more to do with the UK border agency than most people here but comments like this really make me laugh.

Let us get something perfectly clear: It is perfectly legitimate to take a verbatim copy of a workers passport as proof of their right to live and work in the UK. And there is legislation that specifically requires an employer does this. It is a moot point that the agency is not an employer but rather the agency is simply engaging in good business practice by carrying out this type of check and keeping records of the check.

Crown copyright has absolutely NOTHING to do with this and it does NOT stop you photocopying or scanning someone's passport.

How do you deal with contractors who don't have passports? There is no legal requirement for a UK National to even own a passport.

Ooooh you've got us there! Good one. Do you think that the government have thought of that one and perhaps they have a list of alternative documents they can produce? Or is it that all they need to do is utter the magic pass phrase "I'm British innit" and they will be fine? If you are going to check people's documents then you have to check them all regardless of what you perceive their nationality or immigration status to be otherwise you leave yourself open to allegations of racism.

How exactly is your substitution clause written in your contracts? Doesn't sound like one that is IR35 friendly at the moment....

Mine says that I can supply a subbie and that the client will not refuse to accept them without good reason. I think a client would be within their rights to refuse to accept a substitute if the worker was unwilling or unable to establish their right to live and work in the UK.

[PrinceNamor]

Ooooh you've got us there! Good one. Do you think that the government have thought of that one and perhaps they have a list of alternative documents they can produce? Or is it that all they need to do is utter the magic pass phrase "I'm British innit" and they will be fine? If you are going to check people's documents then you have to check them all regardless of what you perceive their nationality or immigration status to be otherwise you leave yourself open to allegations of racism.

The problem is with agencies that they aren't willing to accept any of the alternative documents and always insist on the passport. Agents I've come across are generally to thick to be able to read and understand the relevant legislation.

[rd409]

Nope - I'd want to see the persons Passport. I'd also want full confirmation that the client is happy for it to happen. Oddly, I've been dealing with this exact scenario today.

Well you've said it yourself. We(contractors) dont have issues with showing you the document. The issue is with taking a photocopy/scanned copy. I am very much happy to provide you(agency) with a signed letter stating that the ltd company takes the responsibility of verifying the right to work for each candidate it supplies to the client, for your records. But I am not happy to provide a copy of any document.

I have not yet received any request for any other documents like a copy of bank statement to prove, I have a bank account, or a copy of my tax return to prove I pay tax and like wise. So why bother with a copy of passport for the records.