Opt out of Conduct of employment agencies 2003 act? Opt out of Conduct of employment agencies 2003 act? - Page 11
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  1. #101

    Some things in Moderation

    cojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    Am I correct in that opting in or out of the agency regs does not affect the invoicing/payment/tax process at all?
    It does affect payment in favour of the contractor but it does not affect invoicing or tax.

    I really would recommend that you research the opt-in pros and cons yourself (directly, not merely by asking us and getting second-hand advice).

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  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    It does affect payment in favour of the contractor but it does not affect invoicing or tax.

    I really would recommend that you research the opt-in pros and cons yourself (directly, not merely by asking us and getting second-hand advice).

    The biggest sting since IR35? Employment Agency Regulations - the facts and myths for the IT contractor :: Contractor UK
    Ok thanks for the advice, also, I received the following from the agency as info to help decide whether to op in or not, not sure if this helps though.

    Pros - Advantages of opting out
    1. no increase in administration or forms to complete which could result in increased margins/costs to you
    2. avoid potential delays in starting your assignments
    3. less statutory restriction on your ability to substitute or sub-contract
    4. avoid any implication that you are under the client s control at al times (although you may agree to be)
    5. will assist in demonstrating that you operate outside IR35
    6. easier to show you are in business on your own account
    7. increases your marketability to clients & recruiters looking to reduce administration and place candidates quickly
    8. only one negotiation of contract terms in each case (rather than at the outset and at point of assignment)
    9. less requirements on you to provide information and confirmations
    10. more attractive to umbrellas and composite companies as they avoid increased statutory requirements

    Cons - Disadvantages of opting out
    1. no additional protection regarding potentially onerous contract terms (existing statutory protection remains)
    2. no statutory entitlement to information regarding health and safety (although our terms deal with this)
    3. no minimal protection when required to work away from home
    4. no added protection regarding confidentiality (although Data Protection Act still applies)

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    Ok thanks for the advice, also, I received the following from the agency as info to help decide whether to op in or not, not sure if this helps though.

    Pros - Advantages of opting out
    1. no increase in administration or forms to complete which could result in increased margins/costs to you
    2. avoid potential delays in starting your assignments
    3. less statutory restriction on your ability to substitute or sub-contract
    4. avoid any implication that you are under the client s control at al times (although you may agree to be)
    5. will assist in demonstrating that you operate outside IR35
    6. easier to show you are in business on your own account
    7. increases your marketability to clients & recruiters looking to reduce administration and place candidates quickly
    8. only one negotiation of contract terms in each case (rather than at the outset and at point of assignment)
    9. less requirements on you to provide information and confirmations
    10. more attractive to umbrellas and composite companies as they avoid increased statutory requirements

    Cons - Disadvantages of opting out
    1. no additional protection regarding potentially onerous contract terms (existing statutory protection remains)
    2. no statutory entitlement to information regarding health and safety (although our terms deal with this)
    3. no minimal protection when required to work away from home
    4. no added protection regarding confidentiality (although Data Protection Act still applies)
    Remember the agent is just the guy who has a vested interest in persuading you to opt out.

    This is why they gave you 10 reason to opt out and only 4 to stay opted in.

    I had an agent tell me the other day that I would be "deemed a direct employee of the client" if I didn't opt out.

    Most of the reasons agents give you to opt out are rubbish.

  4. #104

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    OK, so let's look at thee one-by-one...


    Pros - Advantages of opting out
    1. no increase in administration or forms to complete which could result in increased margins/costs to you - rubbish. Makes no difference to you, only the agency

    2. avoid potential delays in starting your assignments - Rubbish

    3. less statutory restriction on your ability to substitute or sub-contract - Rubbish, and irrelevant

    4. avoid any implication that you are under the client s control at al times (although you may agree to be) - rubbish, D&C is not determined by your position under the Regs

    5. will assist in demonstrating that you operate outside IR35 - Rubbish, your IR35 status is not linked to the Regs in any way

    6. easier to show you are in business on your own account - Rubbish. Why?

    7. increases your marketability to clients & recruiters looking to reduce administration and place candidates quickly - Might allow this one, but only becuase agencies cant be a**ed to apply the regs correctly

    8. only one negotiation of contract terms in each case (rather than at the outset and at point of assignment) - Total rubbish.

    9. less requirements on you to provide information and confirmations - Actually true, but I've yet to hear of an agency that doesn't demand a shedload of material anyway, so pointless

    10. more attractive to umbrellas and composite companies as they avoid increased statutory requirements - Rubbish.

    Cons - Disadvantages of opting out
    1. no additional protection regarding potentially onerous contract terms (existing statutory protection remains) - handcuff clauise and payment terms only, both of which are easily circumvented by both client and agency

    2. no statutory entitlement to information regarding health and safety (although our terms deal with this) - Total bollocks

    3. no minimal protection when required to work away from home - Total bollocks

    4. no added protection regarding confidentiality (although Data Protection Act still applies) - Complete and total bollocks if the DPA applies


    So, not even close. Look up your agent on LinkedIn. Bet you he was selling sporting goods a year ago.

    Who are they, anyway?
    Blog? What blog...?

  5. #105

    Faqqed Off

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    Pros - Advantages of opting out
    1. no increase in administration or forms to complete which could result in increased margins/costs to you
    I've had to complete extra forms / provide more information, but it's never had any increased cost to me. It's increased the cost to the agency, probably.
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    2. avoid potential delays in starting your assignments
    Only if the agency tw@t about and cause delays, but there is no reason for this.
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    3. less statutory restriction on your ability to substitute or sub-contract
    Wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    4. avoid any implication that you are under the client s control at al times (although you may agree to be)
    Wrong - it makes no difference
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    5. will assist in demonstrating that you operate outside IR35
    Wrong - it makes no difference
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    6. easier to show you are in business on your own account
    Wrong - it makes no difference
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    7. increases your marketability to clients & recruiters looking to reduce administration and place candidates quickly
    Wrong - there is only additional admin for the agency if they don't know what they are doing and drag their feet. They need to determine you are who you say you are, and if you have told them of any qualifications, you have to prove it. Shouldn't take too long, so have no impact on marketability.
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    8. only one negotiation of contract terms in each case (rather than at the outset and at point of assignment)
    Don't even understand that one!
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    9. less requirements on you to provide information and confirmations
    <buzz>Repetition!
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    10. more attractive to umbrellas and composite companies as they avoid increased statutory requirements
    To opt out, you need to do it personally, and the umbrella needs to do it. So, opting out means that there is for the agency to do. They should already be checking you are who you say you are as you are their employee

    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    Cons - Disadvantages of opting out
    1. no additional protection regarding potentially onerous contract terms (existing statutory protection remains)
    Nicely, vaguely worded. i.e. you can go direct after the contract ends without needing an agent. You have the right to be paid for the work you do, even if the agency gets nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    2. no statutory entitlement to information regarding health and safety (although our terms deal with this)
    Woo.
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    3. no minimal protection when required to work away from home
    Again, woo.
    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    4. no added protection regarding confidentiality (although Data Protection Act still applies)
    What confidentiality are they talking about? See what's in the contract instead.

    The agent may have some kind of vested interest in getting you to opt out - they have to do more work, you have the right to get paid, and can bypass them in the future. It's not surprising they tout this tripe.
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  6. #106

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    I will not be opting out, even though "most of their current contractors opt out", however I hope this does not influence the contract terms/conditions.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    I will not be opting out, even though "most of their current contractors opt out", however I hope this does not influence the contract terms/conditions.
    Expect the agent to fob you off and delay the start date "whilst our legal team look at the issue of you not opting out".

    qh

  8. #108

    Should post faster


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    Quote Originally Posted by quackhandle View Post
    Expect the agent to fob you off and delay the start date "whilst our legal team look at the issue of you not opting out".

    qh
    Exactly what's happening to me now. Apparently, since 99% of their contractors opt out, they don't quite know what to do, but "legal" want to see me face to face, have certified copies of my passport, copies of all my educational certificates, and a health and safety report, whatever that is. I've contacted the client direct to say I'm happy I be joining their project, but that some red tape is delaying the contract beig signed. I've told the agent that my availability goes up from one day, to four weeks as of tomorrow, which is true. They seem quite adamant I have to opt out, or jump through unreasonable hoops, to secure the contract. Sounds fishy.

  9. #109

    My post count is Majestic

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman81 View Post
    I will not be opting out, even though "most of their current contractors opt out", however I hope this does not influence the contract terms/conditions.
    Even though three of our most senior members have just pointed out you appear to know squat about it?
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  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by riffpie View Post
    Apparently, since 99% of their contractors opt out, they don't quite know what to do, but "legal" want to see me face to face, have certified copies of my passport, copies of all my educational certificates, and a health and safety report, whatever that is. I've contacted the client direct to say I'm happy I be joining their project, but that some red tape is delaying the contract beig signed
    Get the certified copies of the documents and send them in, also tell them you will take the originals with you on your first day for the client to sight when you start work. There is no need to meet with their legal people, they are only going to try and harass or bully you. If you do go and meet them then I would be inclined to record the conversation for your records.

    Don't forget that the agency regulations protect the client as well as the worker so it's also in the client's interests for you to stay opted in. Tell the agency quite bluntly that if they mess you around then you will speak to the client and tell them exactly what's going on and that the agency are deliberately being obtuse because you have refused to opt out of the agency regulations.

    Good luck

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