Agency worker regulations and IR35

[Support Monkey]

Under the new AWR After 12 weeks in the same job, when temps who are not ‘genuinely’ self-employed receive the same basic employment and working conditions as employees, they have the right to equal basic pay, overtime, bonus and productivity-related commission.


If I as a limited company are investigated under IR35 and found to be Inside IR35 so not genuinely self employed would i then be able to claim back dated holiday, sickpay, overtime, and bonus from the client

[malvolio]

Under the new AWR After 12 weeks in the same job, when temps who are not ‘genuinely’ self-employed receive the same basic employment and working conditions as employees, they have the right to equal basic pay, overtime, bonus and productivity-related commission.


If I as a limited company are investigated under IR35 and found to be Inside IR35 so not genuinely self employed would i then be able to claim back dated holiday, sickpay, overtime, and bonus from the client

Who knows. Ltd Co contractors are supposed to be out of scope of AWR.

But do not ever confuse IR35 staus with employement status. While they use the same tests (albeit rather imaginatively on occasion) being IR35 caught is about tax and being an employee is about, ermm, employement. Different laws, different applications of the laws. One does not imply the other.

[TestMangler]

Who knows. Ltd Co contractors are supposed to be out of scope of AWR.
But do not ever confuse IR35 staus with employement status. While they use the same tests (albeit rather imaginatively on occasion) being IR35 caught is about tax and being an employee is about, ermm, employement. Different laws, different applications of the laws. One does not imply the other.

Unfortuately, that is not the case. Ltd Co contractors are inside the AWR UNLESS GENUINELY IN BUSINESS ON THEIR OWN ACCOUNT.

Having a Ltd does not mean you automatically fall outside AWR.

I posted something up about this a couple of weeks ago in that my current Agent had asked me to sign a 'status declaration' and had basically started to lick my arse about contracts/being outside IR35 etc. previously, most agents were difficult if you wanted a contract changed. They're now asking me if I want anything changed !

This is a good thing, yes ?

[malvolio]

Unfortuately, that is not the case. Ltd Co contractors are inside the AWR UNLESS GENUINELY IN BUSINESS ON THEIR OWN ACCOUNT.

Having a Ltd does not mean you automatically fall outside AWR.

I posted something up about this a couple of weeks ago in that my current Agent had asked me to sign a 'status declaration' and had basically started to lick my arse about contracts/being outside IR35 etc. previously, most agents were difficult if you wanted a contract changed. They're now asking me if I want anything changed !

This is a good thing, yes ?

Don't shout at me, I'm only reporting what we've been told by the guys at BIS who wrote the damned thing and who, we kind of assume, know what they're talking about. The "genuinely in business" caveat is gold-plating with no real basis in the original requirement which, in case you'd forgotten, is to protect low-end casual workers supplied as temporary workers by various agencies and not highly-paid, professional freelance workers.

And contracts can say anything you agree they should say, but that don't matter a damn if they don't correctly reflect your actual working practices.

If anyone's intrested in the detail, start at this link with an intro from Egos..

The Agency Workers Regulations: An opportunity for freelancers | PCG

[craig1]

Just as a point of interest, my current end-client manager knows that my wife is the other partner in my LLP, he suggested this morning that if she "needed to come in to assist" me for a day that he'd be very happy to pay for that day within the contract. After all, it can't be an employer-employee relationship if I can bring in someone to help me

First real sign of intelligence about contractors that I've seen from this place and it shows that they're getting serious about this AWR business.

[DaveP]

in scope of AWR

Hi,

I'm a contractor working through my own ltd co.
I rang my agency the other day just to ask how it will effect me.
Straight away without question I was told that because I'm ltd awr does not apply and I will continue on the same arrangement I am currently on.

I've red the odd white paper, which makes me think that I am in scope of AWR

So do I now need to convince my agency that I'm in scope ??. I'd rather not start arguing with them
as I've got better things to be doing ie work.

Is there anything I can bring to there attention which will prove to them without any doubt that I am in scope.



many thanks

[malvolio]

Hi,

I'm a contractor working through my own ltd co.
I rang my agency the other day just to ask how it will effect me.
Straight away without question I was told that because I'm ltd awr does not apply and I will continue on the same arrangement I am currently on.

I've red the odd white paper, which makes me think that I am in scope of AWR

So do I now need to convince my agency that I'm in scope ??. I'd rather not start arguing with them
as I've got better things to be doing ie work.

Is there anything I can bring to there attention which will prove to them without any doubt that I am in scope.



many thanks

Why on God's earth do you want to be in scope? Or do you really want to see your contracts terminated every eleven weeks, assuming yuo can get one at all?

Sorry, but you need to get your head out of work for five minutes and read that link I posted earlier. You clearly have no idea what it's all about.

[craig1]

Why on God's earth do you want to be in scope? Or do you really want to see your contracts terminated every eleven weeks, assuming yuo can get one at all?

Sorry, but you need to get your head out of work for five minutes and read that link I posted earlier. You clearly have no idea what it's all about.

Although I'm not entirely sure that's what he meant by his post, I can see why you get that.

For me in that situation, I'd have asked the agency to put it in writing that they considered me out of scope for AWR then got on with contracting.

[Support Monkey]

Obviously its a Hyperthetical question, but in theory if your investigated under IR35 and deemed to not be genuinely’ self-employed then you must be employed, which in theory would put you inside the scope of AWR and entitle you to all the benefits

So when the tax man as shafted you, you can shaft the client

[malvolio]

Obviously its a Hyperthetical question, but in theory if your investigated under IR35 and deemed to not be genuinely’ self-employed then you must be employed, which in theory would put you inside the scope of AWR and entitle you to all the benefits

So when the tax man as shafted you, you can shaft the client

No, that's an urban myth. Losing a tax case doesn't change your employement status or vice versa. What would actually happen is you'd be terminated immediately since you are about to cost the client several grand in employers NICs

Google "the nuclear option" and you will see why it doesn't work.