Contracted hours

[psychocandy]

Here's my take on it.

If its occasionally then I dont mind doing in the interests of goodwill. However, then I wont expect anyone to say anything if I roll in at 11am one day because of a dentist appt or something or want to leave early one friday. If they ever started on that, it'd be the end of free extras from me....
Luckily my client doesnt seem to give a toss what I do which is good.

However, I wont do weekends for free. Odd phone call fair enough but if it stops me doing stuff at the weekend then they pay.

Unlike some contractors who I work with. :-( This sometimes causes a problem for me.

Thing is clients have a budget and sometimes they aint willing to pay for extra days/hours. Its amazing how urgent weekend work suddenly becomes not so urgent when you mention that it needs to be 'authorised'.

But I heard of one guy who used to work here 10 hours a day permanently here cos the client pulled the old professional day lark and he fell for it. Of course, the permie PM was over the moon about this one.

[Craic]

The rule of thumb on this is that if you people to take the Michael then they will.

Everybody wants somethimng for nothing.

[northernladuk]

The rule of thumb on this is that if you people to take the Michael then they will.

Everybody wants somethimng for nothing.

Fancy checking this and editting it to add the missing words so it makes sense?

[BolshieBastard]

Being on a day rate doesnt mean you have to or should be expected to work 12, 13, 14 or more hour days for no extra. The client wont be happy if you only work 4 or 5 hours a day yet bill a full day so I dont see why so many people think the OP should swallow it.

However, as with all these things it depends how much you need the work and whether you are prepared to kick up a fuss.

I dont have a problem working an extra 3 or 4 hours a week free of charge but, I dont expect or rather wont work 3 or 4 hours a day for a week or more without some easement by the client ie TOIL. I dont hold with any of this 'goodwill' hours either as that's just a snide way to get more out of a contract without paying.

a mate of mine had an interview, got the job and when he turned up, the tM said he was expected to work half a day a week extra as goodwill. My mate being soft in the business acumen department swallowed it but I told him he was stupid as it meant his rate was immediately diluted. Further, if the client expected an extra half day's work for free, this should have been made clear in the interview.

[sqlash]

Thanks for the replies. Wasn't expecting so many. In summary it's a large migration project with a go live mid 2012 but lots of critical milestones as many dependent tasks (from what I've gathered so far - only a month into the contract).

Like the idea of keeping a log of the hours which I'll start doing. Going to have a chat with the PM asap to laydown some ground rules on the hours as best to get out in the open rather than let it fester as it a good project to be involved with and don't mind a few extra hours and purely from a practical standpoint, overdoing things only leads to a higher risk of errors and can be counter-productive.

Ash

[psychocandy]

Being on a day rate doesnt mean you have to or should be expected to work 12, 13, 14 or more hour days for no extra. The client wont be happy if you only work 4 or 5 hours a day yet bill a full day so I dont see why so many people think the OP should swallow it.

However, as with all these things it depends how much you need the work and whether you are prepared to kick up a fuss.

I dont have a problem working an extra 3 or 4 hours a week free of charge but, I dont expect or rather wont work 3 or 4 hours a day for a week or more without some easement by the client ie TOIL. I dont hold with any of this 'goodwill' hours either as that's just a snide way to get more out of a contract without paying.

Unfortunately, where I am now there is one contractor who does this. Works weekends for free. Makes me look like a cock when I insist they sort out authorisation in advance.

a mate of mine had an interview, got the job and when he turned up, the tM said he was expected to work half a day a week extra as goodwill. My mate being soft in the business acumen department swallowed it but I told him he was stupid as it meant his rate was immediately diluted. Further, if the client expected an extra half day's work for free, this should have been made clear in the interview.

Good point about the 4/5 hour day thing. Client would more than likely kick off if you worked 3 hours less but would expect you to suck up 3 hours extra!

IMHO, Goodwill is a thing that needs to work both ways. If client is busy, I'll do the extra time (Within reason). If I need a few hours off when its not busy then it happens.

As for you mate, sod that. Goodwill is what I decide pure and simple not what the client expects for free.

Then again its awkward I guess. Imagine it, your on the bench, get a contract and you're well happy. Turn up to this. What do you do? Kick off and lose the contract?
In this instance, I prob would because its taking the piss.

Imagine getting a builder in and telling him you'll pay him for 5 days but then hes gotta put in an extra half day for free? Can imagine what he'd say!

[psychocandy]

Thanks for the replies. Wasn't expecting so many. In summary it's a large migration project with a go live mid 2012 but lots of critical milestones as many dependent tasks (from what I've gathered so far - only a month into the contract).

Like the idea of keeping a log of the hours which I'll start doing. Going to have a chat with the PM asap to laydown some ground rules on the hours as best to get out in the open rather than let it fester as it a good project to be involved with and don't mind a few extra hours and purely from a practical standpoint, overdoing things only leads to a higher risk of errors and can be counter-productive.

Ash

Ash, the thing is though, if it hasnt been planned or resourced properly then its not your problem, is it? Is it possible they're counting your days as 1.5 or something in the hope they can squeeze you for it? Not cool.

I've had several minor disagreements with my client about this. Just because its been planned badly doesnt mean I've got to work for free to sort it out. (poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part and all that!).

[northernladuk]

Thanks for the replies. Wasn't expecting so many. In summary it's a large migration project with a go live mid 2012 but lots of critical milestones as many dependent tasks (from what I've gathered so far - only a month into the contract).

Like the idea of keeping a log of the hours which I'll start doing. Going to have a chat with the PM asap to laydown some ground rules on the hours as best to get out in the open rather than let it fester as it a good project to be involved with and don't mind a few extra hours and purely from a practical standpoint, overdoing things only leads to a higher risk of errors and can be counter-productive.

Ash

Give us a heads up on what happens. We get asked this alot and spend a lot of time giving our opinions but never see a result. Would be good to see what different clients are willing to do in situations like this.

[the_rangdo]

If they ever started on that, it'd be the end of free extras from me....

+1

Current client I used to stack up enough hours to finish early (13:00) on a Friday and with an extra 2-3 hours a week in hand (goodwill, whatever)

Then they moaned that permies can't finish before 4, have to have an hour for lunch, blah blah.

So I work my 7 hours/day as per contract (generally 7:30-15:30 so it's still before 4) with very little extra 'goodwill' and weekends are invoiced (and paid)

Hasn't stopped me getting multiple extensions

[sqlash]

Give us a heads up on what happens. We get asked this alot and spend a lot of time giving our opinions but never see a result. Would be good to see what different clients are willing to do in situations like this.

I will let you know the outcome of the meeting I've arranged with the PM on Monday. My main thrust in the meeting will be - "I'm 110% commited to the project but working hours have to sensible to ensure the highest quality, robust, SQL stored procedures are delivered (if not risk is introducted to the project down the line)."

Ash