Being Part of the 'TEAM'

[Mephisto]

I’m currently gigging at a ClientCo. which is a partnership between a Telco and a local Council. I know I should have assumed it would be pubic sector hell but I just didn’t listen to the voices.

Ok so the dilemma is one which is trotted out here daily so apologies in advance. I am doing some BA work for the IT side as they are migrating their ITSM system. Apparently this makes me a part of the Service Management ‘team’. Ok well I’ll sit near you all but were on strictly biz2biz here no hanky panky.

No actually I have to sign leaving cards, donate to charity, eat free fruit (ok I’ll do this), take breaks/lunch when told (I ignore this) and start finish as told (again currently ignored politely)

All that I could stand in a diluted-roundabout-coming-to-a-mutual-understanding sort of way if IF it was toned down. BUT and here’s the cracker, here’s the bit to make you sit up and take note…

…when I’m ‘quiet’ (chortle) I will be expected to take part in and actively support the BAU work that the plebs do. Not only that but my ‘free time’ (you’re killing me here) will be quantified, boxed off to the same times each week and added to the rota. That’s ROTA. Essentially the divvies want me to divvy up my time in a structured way each week and make sure that x time on y day is free every time without fail.



They don’t have many Contractors it would seem in this dept. and those they do take on mysteriously leave soon after…

[Bunk]

I’m currently gigging at a ClientCo. which is a partnership between a Telco and a local Council. I know I should have assumed it would be pubic sector hell but I just didn’t listen to the voices.

Ok so the dilemma is one which is trotted out here daily so apologies in advance. I am doing some BA work for the IT side as they are migrating their ITSM system. Apparently this makes me a part of the Service Management ‘team’. Ok well I’ll sit near you all but were on strictly biz2biz here no hanky panky.

No actually I have to sign leaving cards, donate to charity, eat free fruit (ok I’ll do this), take breaks/lunch when told (I ignore this) and start finish as told (again currently ignored politely)

All that I could stand in a diluted-roundabout-coming-to-a-mutual-understanding sort of way if IF it was toned down. BUT and here’s the cracker, here’s the bit to make you sit up and take note…

…when I’m ‘quiet’ (chortle) I will be expected to take part in and actively support the BAU work that the plebs do. Not only that but my ‘free time’ (you’re killing me here) will be quantified, boxed off to the same times each week and added to the rota. That’s ROTA. Essentially the divvies want me to divvy up my time in a structured way each week and make sure that x time on y day is free every time without fail.



They don’t have many Contractors it would seem in this dept. and those they do take on mysteriously leave soon after…

You have my sympathies. Sounds like IR35 hell

[jmo21]

I’m currently gigging at a ClientCo. which is a partnership between a Telco and a local Council. I know I should have assumed it would be pubic sector hell but I just didn’t listen to the voices.

Ok so the dilemma is one which is trotted out here daily so apologies in advance. I am doing some BA work for the IT side as they are migrating their ITSM system. Apparently this makes me a part of the Service Management ‘team’. Ok well I’ll sit near you all but were on strictly biz2biz here no hanky panky.

No actually I have to sign leaving cards, donate to charity, eat free fruit (ok I’ll do this), take breaks/lunch when told (I ignore this) and start finish as told (again currently ignored politely)

All that I could stand in a diluted-roundabout-coming-to-a-mutual-understanding sort of way if IF it was toned down. BUT and here’s the cracker, here’s the bit to make you sit up and take note…

…when I’m ‘quiet’ (chortle) I will be expected to take part in and actively support the BAU work that the plebs do. Not only that but my ‘free time’ (you’re killing me here) will be quantified, boxed off to the same times each week and added to the rota. That’s ROTA. Essentially the divvies want me to divvy up my time in a structured way each week and make sure that x time on y day is free every time without fail.



They don’t have many Contractors it would seem in this dept. and those they do take on mysteriously leave soon after…

Most clients don't give a bollock for IR35, what someone put in your contract etc etc.

Some are fine, some have issues, others can be a nightmare like your current "gig".

All they care about is getting the job done, and any whining from you will only achieve antagonising the client, even if you are entirely in the right.

So..... let us know what you do about it.

[northernladuk]

You have my sympathies. Sounds like IR35 hell

Couldn't agree more. The card signing and all the crap is totally irrelavant to anything and is your choice. That is more relationship management and is totally up to you if you want to keep the client sweet or be a miserable bastard. People spend £1000's entertaining clients so buying cakes would fall under the same catagory for me. I don't see it as being part and parcel of the workforce.

The rest of it though.... Sounds like a checklist for client D&C to me. The only thing I could think to do is get everything asked of you in a contract so become part of your deliverables but they sound so adhoc I can't see how it can't be D&C. I would guess the telco wants you to be part of the team delivering to the end client. Even the best worded contract isn't going to help you here. I am currently part of a consultancy facing up to their end client but it is clear at both consultancy and end client level that I am a contractor and I work very differently to both the consultancy staff AND the client end staff. They all know I have been brought in to deliver a piece of work as part of the solution that consultancy was unable to deliver. It doesn't sound like your case at all.

[northernladuk]

No actually I have to sign leaving cards, donate to charity, eat free fruit (ok I’ll do this), take breaks/lunch when told (I ignore this) and start finish as told (again currently ignored politely)

Just a point on this as well... I don't think ignoring the clients request is helping your IR35 status at all. When investigated the client will tell the investigation you are expected to do this, this and that. The fact you don't adhere to it I don't think proves anything. A permie can ignore requests from their employer as well. The client is still treating you like a permie and this what counts. There 'may' be some defense that they don't take you to task about it like a permie i.e. there is some precedence over time but you are on a wish and a prayer there. If they say we expect him to do it but he was tardy and ignored it does not help you I don't think. Get it agreed.

[psychocandy]

Most clients don't give a bollock for IR35, what someone put in your contract etc etc.

Some are fine, some have issues, others can be a nightmare like your current "gig".

All they care about is getting the job done, and any whining from you will only achieve antagonising the client, even if you are entirely in the right.

So..... let us know what you do about it.

WHS. At the low level clients dont give a toss. You're just another person to do work.

IMHO kicking off about how special you are just pissed off client. They dont care - they just want the work done.

Fair enough about IR35 but reality is you can try your best but if you kick off too much you aint going to have a contract anyway.

[northernladuk]

WHS. At the low level clients dont give a toss. You're just another person to do work.

IMHO kicking off about how special you are just pissed off client. They dont care - they just want the work done.

Fair enough about IR35 but reality is you can try your best but if you kick off too much you aint going to have a contract anyway.

Something best sorted out once and for all at the beginning of the contract IMO. Get it right first time with a confirmation letter or discussing with agent/client and then use that to fall back on. Don't be afraid to walk away if they don't give you the right signals. Easy to say but not easy to do when on the bench. If that is the case then you just need to understand the risk and not kid yourself. If you are in a gig and don't understand your own status something is wrong IMO.

[Mephisto]

Thanks all.

Just to pick up on a couple of NLUK's points, I've murmured about this in the past as we all have on here but I strongly believe this is the declassification of genuine Contractors in full swing.

The service desk has 'Contractors' that would ordinarily have been temps and as such there is little distinction when you're a penpusher it seems. It may be a clientco thing and I’m being paranoid but it's not the first time I've seen it.

If I was performing virtual alchemy in a dark room or data centre I would likely be treated differently I know but not being an uber-geek means you are one of the plebs. I applied for a BA position, I interviewed for it and I got it. Then the landscape blurred a bit and went funny a few weeks in.

Anyhow I will see how we go this week. I am in before everyone most days and out after so the start/time and lunch things are currently inconsequential but this rota malarkey needs clarifying.

The reality is I suppose that there is a fine line between being an a*se about things and being a lap-dog. I do not fear walking away but I do also want to stay and deliver if allowed!

[Bunk]

Thanks all.

Just to pick up on a couple of NLUK's points, I've murmured about this in the past as we all have on here but I strongly believe this is the declassification of genuine Contractors in full swing.

The service desk has 'Contractors' that would ordinarily have been temps and as such there is little distinction when you're a penpusher it seems. It may be a clientco thing and I’m being paranoid but it's not the first time I've seen it.

If I was performing virtual alchemy in a dark room or data centre I would likely be treated differently I know but not being an uber-geek means you are one of the plebs. I applied for a BA position, I interviewed for it and I got it. Then the landscape blurred a bit and went funny a few weeks in.

Anyhow I will see how we go this week. I am in before everyone most days and out after so the start/time and lunch things are currently inconsequential but this rota malarkey needs clarifying.

The reality is I suppose that there is a fine line between being an a*se about things and being a lap-dog. I do not fear walking away but I do also want to stay and deliver if allowed!

You have to be careful, ignoring clientco's wishes won't protect you from IR35 but it will piss them off and mark you out as unhelpful. The things I'd be worried about are "take breaks/lunch when told", "start finish as told", "take part in and actively support the BAU work" and "make sure that x time on y day is free every time without fail". That sounds like you'd fall foul of both 'direction and control' and 'mutuality of obligations'.

It might be worth a chat if you think you could explain to a PM or line manager that it's important you retain some sort of independence over how you work.

[jmo21]

It might be worth a chat if you think you could explain to a PM or line manager that it's important you retain some sort of independence over how you work.

Yep. Bare in mind that in reality, that is only important to you, not them.

Fingers crossed you get someone reasonable.