Client and Agent serve notice but don't pay me - where do I stand legally Client and Agent serve notice but don't pay me - where do I stand legally - Page 2
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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Podgy View Post
    Why do you all keep contradicting yourself on this matter!

    One minute stating its a business and the next about no pay for no work by the individual.

    It is based on the business CONTRACT - if the contract has a notice period then it should be paid - unless it states specifically that it is reliant on work being available, timesheets being signed blah blah blah and agreed - and equal to both parties.

    There are many business contracts in construction that do end up paying contractors / workmen whilst they cant work as either the site / materials are not ready - what do you think they do send them home & dont pay them everytime there is a lapse in the project.

    If the notice period excludes payment then the notice period is worthless as the contract can be ended at a moments notice just by saying we have no work, dont come back, but take 4 weeks unpaid notice - it makes absolutely no sense and is totally open to abuse. It would also be totally unfair.

    The regulations are clear. Why are so many of you confused?
    Surely it's down to whether the contract states a specific burn,(e.g. 5 days/week). If so, then I would expect the client to honour that within the notice period. If however there is an agreement to purchase services at a given rate, but with no specific burn, then the client can give notice but does not have to take/pay for any services during that time.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Podgy View Post
    Why do you all keep contradicting yourself on this matter!

    One minute stating its a business and the next about no pay for no work by the individual.

    It is based on the business CONTRACT - if the contract has a notice period then it should be paid - unless it states specifically that it is reliant on work being available, timesheets being signed blah blah blah and agreed - and equal to both parties.

    There are many business contracts in construction that do end up paying contractors / workmen whilst they cant work as either the site / materials are not ready - what do you think they do send them home & dont pay them everytime there is a lapse in the project.

    If the notice period excludes payment then the notice period is worthless as the contract can be ended at a moments notice just by saying we have no work, dont come back, but take 4 weeks unpaid notice - it makes absolutely no sense and is totally open to abuse. It would also be totally unfair.

    The regulations are clear. Why are so many of you confused?
    Every contract I have states that payment will only be made with a signed timesheet. It would be pretty stupid not to have that in and I believe is considered the defacto standard.... so no work, no time sheet, no pay... as we have already stated.

    EDIT : Another thought on this.. If clients start having issues paying contractors notice when it's given even when there is no work surely they will just not provide work and let the contract expire. That is going to cause us problems being stuck in contracts and unable to go find more work until it lapses. Surely it would be better to have the option to get canned as soon as the work finishes, no notice period, so we are then free to get extra work. There is a fairly good assumption that most clients will have planned the end of the work properly and the contractor will have had a heads up about it rather than just polling up one day and getting canned there and then.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 27th June 2013 at 16:21.
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  3. #13

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    If the client take on a contractor and have not scheduled the volume or timing of the work/project correctly thats their problem.

    If they want me to agree to sit at home unpaid whenever due to their lack of planning they can put it in the contract (prior to interview as per the regulations!) and I'll tell them where to shove it.

    I take it a lot of you would just meekly sign

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    Every contract I have states that payment will only be made with a signed timesheet. It would be pretty stupid not to have that in and I believe is considered the defacto standard.... so no work, no time sheet, no pay... as we have already stated.
    But does it state it relating to the notice period?

    If not - its got nothing to do with it.

    And if you really are so fixated on the timesheet - just send it in for the signature?

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Podgy View Post
    Why do you all keep contradicting yourself on this matter!

    One minute stating its a business and the next about no pay for no work by the individual.

    It is based on the business CONTRACT - if the contract has a notice period then it should be paid - unless it states specifically that it is reliant on work being available, timesheets being signed blah blah blah and agreed - and equal to both parties.
    So you're saying that you get paid according to the contract? Every one I've seen says "no timesheet, no work, no payment" or words to that effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Podgy View Post
    There are many business contracts in construction that do end up paying contractors / workmen whilst they cant work as either the site / materials are not ready - what do you think they do send them home & dont pay them everytime there is a lapse in the project.
    I don't think many people here work in construction, or have a contract which says that they get paid for not working.

    Quote Originally Posted by Podgy View Post
    If the notice period excludes payment then the notice period is worthless as the contract can be ended at a moments notice just by saying we have no work, dont come back,
    Yes, you're right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Podgy View Post
    but take 4 weeks unpaid notice - it makes absolutely no sense and is totally open to abuse. It would also be totally unfair.
    Whoever told you life is fair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Podgy View Post
    The regulations are clear. Why are so many of you confused?
    I don't think many people are confused, to be honest. Most understand exactly what their contract says, and understand whether they are entitled to payment or not. If the contract says that you are entitled to payment, then you should be paid; if it doesn't, then you shouldn't.

    We've been through this a number of times in your previous incarnations here - KittyCat, Tiddles etc. - before they were banned.

    Most people believe that if you don't work, you don't get paid. You think differently, and claim to have taken an agency to court, and they backed down at the last minute giving you tens of thousands of pounds.

    I don't for one second believe a word that you say.
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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Podgy View Post
    But does it state it relating to the notice period?

    If not - its got nothing to do with it.

    And if you really are so fixated on the timesheet - just send it in for the signature?
    But what will be in on the timesheet? Zero hours, which = zero pay. Jesus....

    The problem is, as I stated in another thread, we do not do enough diligence on our notice periods so to be honest this argument is all our own fault. The standard contracts mention notice periods but absolutely nothing about being paid them. They are worked as normal (or not if the case need be). That is the problem. If you want to stipulate notice period is paid regardless you MUST put that in so no argument. Same with the clause about getting binned if no work. The standard notice period is so badly written that it causes this type of debate. We see different things in it.

    Saying that to me it's pretty clear. I get paid if I have done work and had a timesheet paid. In contract or in notice period. Simple. But if you think notice periods mean something different you must get it clear in your contract to remove ambiguity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    So you're saying that you get paid according to the contract? Every one I've seen says "no timesheet, no work, no payment" or words to that effect.


    I don't think many people here work in construction, or have a contract which says that they get paid for not working.


    Yes, you're right.

    Whoever told you life is fair?


    I don't think many people are confused, to be honest. Most understand exactly what their contract says, and understand whether they are entitled to payment or not. If the contract says that you are entitled to payment, then you should be paid; if it doesn't, then you shouldn't.

    We've been through this a number of times in your previous incarnations here - KittyCat, Tiddles etc. - before they were banned.

    Most people believe that if you don't work, you don't get paid. You think differently, and claim to have taken an agency to court, and they backed down at the last minute giving you tens of thousands of pounds.

    I don't for one second believe a word that you say.
    The only thing not true is that it was'nt tens of thousands, sadly!

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    But what will be in on the timesheet? Zero hours, which = zero pay. Jesus....

    The problem is, as I stated in another thread, we do not do enough diligence on our notice periods so to be honest this argument is all our own fault. The standard contracts mention notice periods but absolutely nothing about being paid them. They are worked as normal (or not if the case need be). That is the problem. If you want to stipulate notice period is paid regardless you MUST put that in so no argument. Same with the clause about getting binned if no work. The standard notice period is so badly written that it causes this type of debate. We see different things in it.

    Saying that to me it's pretty clear. I get paid if I have done work and had a timesheet paid. In contract or in notice period. Simple. But if you think notice periods mean something different you must get it clear in your contract to remove ambiguity.
    Ahh you see thats where we differ - to me it is clear - as notice without pay is meaningless and would be unfair in contract terms.

    mmmm let me see;

    Notice Period:

    Agency: 4 weeks with no pay if no work, 4 weeks with pay if enough work (up to us really).
    Ltd Co: 4 weeks (or we'll withold your payment/sue you).

    The whole point of it is so that both parties can plan for the end of the contract & that its fair on both sides.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Podgy View Post
    Ahh you see thats where we differ - to me it is clear - as notice without pay is meaningless and would be unfair in contract terms.
    Notice period is just a period in which you know the contract is going to end. The contractual terms for the work during that period are no different.

    You not think it is odd that not one person appears to agree with you?

    If you want it to be fair then you negotiate that in to your contract.
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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    You not think it is odd that not one person appears to agree with you?
    ...Yet

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