Has anybody here furloughed themselves yet?

[GhostofTarbera]

Has anybody here furloughed themselves yet?

^ correct. Not generating any revenue on a course.

Indeed


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[jamesbrown]

It might make more sense if I fill in the full quote as I see it was misunderstood by you above referring to size and sector. Read the below bolded part of it. You will see they state the scheme is designed for affected employers due to covid BUT is available to all employers irrespective. In other words any company can use it, despite the fact they may have millions in reserves. Basically they realised it would be too complex and troublesome if they had to come up with a profitability/reserve test first.

"This is a temporary scheme in place for 4 months starting from 1 March 2020, but it may be extended if necessary and employers can use this scheme anytime during this period. It is designed to help employers whose operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19) to retain their employees and protect the UK economy. However, all employers are eligible to claim under the scheme and the government recognises different businesses will face different impacts from coronavirus."

I thought your last try was your last try.

You can quote it all you like. We've both read the guidance in full, I assume. I simply don't agree with your interpretation. The guidance is quite clear that it is designed to help companies who would otherwise be unable to maintain their workers. Notably: "If you cannot maintain your current workforce" and "to retain their employees".

I guess we'll find out in due course, but I have learned to take HMRC guidance with a pinch of salt, even in current times. Again, I am not trying to scare people, just trying to offer some perspective. I do believe that HMG will take a lenient view. But there's lenient and ****-take.

[jamesbrown]

To clear this up, and having spoken with an HMRC agent, he says I am not entitled.

The rent was the binder.

Gosh, I'm shocked.

HMRC guidance leaving scope to read between the lines.

[jamesbrown]

Yeah if the LTD has money coming in I'd say it's not needed - especially if that money is coming in from being a landlord! Unless you can establish that the landlord themselves isn't involved in doing any work for the money (hmm, may have a point there )

So your reading between the lines of the guidance is that a massive warchest (to support one worker) is fine, but passive income is not fine.

OK.

My reading between the lines says "It's absolutely fine to use this scheme if you need it. Needing it means that you would lose (have to stop paying) the furloughed employees if it weren't for this scheme."

[oilboil]

You are eligible. Your reserves don't matter - this is to stop Corona causing you to eat into them as much as it is doing.

Looking for work doesn't generate any income, only doing work does - thus you are furloughed (or can be). "I'm looking" doesn't pay the mortgage.

I don't think the person you replied to is actually eligible because as a landlord he actually has to be "working" in order to resolve issues/queries from his tenants or agents.

So unless he's giving the flat away free (or the flats are owned outwith the company claiming the furlough) then they have called this one correctly by not claiming

[CheeseSlice]

So your reading between the lines of the guidance is that a massive warchest (to support one worker) is fine, but passive income is not fine.

OK.

My reading between the lines says "It's absolutely fine to use this scheme if you need it. Needing it means that you would lose (have to stop paying) the furloughed employees if it weren't for this scheme."

OK, I think I can solve this matter. The gov website is obviously missing some of the finer detail.

However there is a more detailed briefing paper (FAQ) here:
Briefing Paper CBP 8880

Question 8: Do employers need to prove they cannot otherwise pay their employees?

In previous versions of the Government guidance there was uncertainty over whether employers could only furlough workers if they would otherwise have to make them redundant.

The Treasury Direction makes it clear that this is not a requirement. An employer can furlough workers provided “the instruction is given by reason of circumstances arising as a result of coronavirus or coronavirus disease.”

The guidance for employers also says that “all employers are eligible to claim under the scheme and the government recognises different businesses will face different impacts from coronavirus.”

[jamesbrown]

OK, I think I can solve this matter. The gov website is obviously missing some of the finer detail.

However there is a more detailed briefing paper (FAQ) here:
Briefing Paper CBP 8880

Great post, thanks. I agree that clarifies the situation.

[jamed]

OK, I think I can solve this matter. The gov website is obviously missing some of the finer detail.

However there is a more detailed briefing paper (FAQ) here:
Briefing Paper CBP 8880

That FAQ section is definitely quite helpful and makes it crystal clear to everyone now that we can furlough ourselves irrespective of reserves.

Although I do still think the guidance on the Gov site is also pretty clear and obvious that any employer can claim. That bolded part is fairly straightforward and unambiguous.

Not really sure how there was so much confusion in this thread about reserves etc being a factor in furloughing oneself

"This is a temporary scheme in place for 4 months starting from 1 March 2020, but it may be extended if necessary and employers can use this scheme anytime during this period. It is designed to help employers whose operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19) to retain their employees and protect the UK economy. However, all employers are eligible to claim under the scheme and the government recognises different businesses will face different impacts from coronavirus."

[Paralytic]

"This is a temporary scheme in place for 4 months starting from 1 March 2020, but it may be extended if necessary and employers can use this scheme anytime during this period. It is designed to help employers whose operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19) to retain their employees and protect the UK economy. However, all employers are eligible to claim under the scheme and the government recognises different businesses will face different impacts from coronavirus."

Is someone paying you for every time you quite that guidance?

[jamed]

Is someone paying you for every time you quite that guidance?

I would have only had to quote it once if it was actually read and understood the first time