Pope Francis says freedom of speech has limits

[scooterscot]

Je ne suis pas Charlie, because whilst I have no problems with questioning and challenging someone's beliefs, insulting and mocking them simply isn't a nice way to behave.

I shudder at the day name calling becomes 'not a nice way to behave' the world's leading problems, when we have murdering terrorists who run amok killing indiscriminately using suicide child bombers in Nigeria.

[xoggoth]

I don't think we should set out to insult simply for the sake of insulting but we have to be able to criticise and question. How is it is possible for those who want rational laws to challenge the idea that the whole of society should be governed by the supposed sayings of an 8th century prophet without suggesting that the prophet was just a flawed man, that the Koran is nothing more than the work of mortal men? Cartoons and comedy are necessary ways to do that. Dry, scholarly treatises are never going to reach those we would wish to persuade.

If we did not have so many Muslims in the West causing us problems, we would not feel any necessity to do so, anymore than we spend time criticising Sikhism. It is because so many Muslims have taken advantage of Western prosperity and other attributes that suit them and insist on challenging our values when it doesn't, that we have this problem. For that reason I have little sympathy with them over this issue. As the Muslim Mayor of Rotterdam has said, if they don't like our freedoms they can f* off.

Once the Islamists are out of our hair and we are left with just the moderate Muslims who value democracy and freedom we can all start to get on together and nobody will feel the need to make these "insults" at all.

[Zero Liability]

I find the proclamations of religious "leaders" to be another reason that I consider most organised religion to be utter tripe. I wish they'd just vanish.

[darmstadt]

I wouldn't go as far as 'as hateful' but some of the stuff they published appears to serve no other purpose than to upset, offend and provoke a disproportionate reaction. It's lacks the humour or insight that to me defines satire.

Just because they're allowed to say it, doesn't mean they should. Je ne suis pas Charlie, because whilst I have no problems with questioning and challenging someone's beliefs, insulting and mocking them simply isn't a nice way to behave. The best way to lose freedom is to abuse it. In the UK, we don't allow hate speech against race, gender, sexuality. I don't see religion being that different. For those who say it's a choice, I'm not sure it is - I can choose to become Muslim/Christian or whatever tomorrow, but I can't choose to believe in God if I don't, and whilst someone who believes in God may start to doubt their faith, not believing isn't really a choice.

Be kind to your fellow beings is a good philosophy whatever you do or don't believe in.

Well actually religion did come into play as it was considered blasphemy (* part of common law) and this was incorporated into the Religious and Racial Hatred Act in 2006 however this part was abolished by the Tories in 2008 with the introduction of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act later in 2008. However certain acts against religions, all religions, can still be considered a criminal offence under the aforementioned Religious and Racial Hatred Act and the Public Order Act of 1986. I can still remember friends of mine back in the the late 70's being investigated on the trumped up charge of 'criminal blasphemy' although nothing came of it. These were the same charges which were used against James Kirkup by Mary Whitehouse in 1977 for his poem 'The Love That Dares to Speak its Name.'




(* Every publication is said to be blasphemous which contains any contemptuous, reviling, scurrilous or ludicrous matter relating to God, Jesus Christ or the Bible, or the formularies of the Church of England as by law established. It is not blasphemous to speak or publish opinions hostile to the Christian religion, or to deny the existence of God, if the publication is couched in decent and temperate language. The test to be applied is as to the manner in which the doctrines are advocated and not to the substance of the doctrines themselves.)

[Scruff]

WGAF?

[EternalOptimist]

This is mad. People should be able to say anything. That's freedom of speech.

Then the rest of us should have the right to ignore and sideline what we find distasteful.

Then we should have the recourse to law where the words are slanderous or otherwise harmful.

Then the law should have the right to intervene where the words are harmful to the national security ( like abu hamza recruiting in public and spewing hate).

What is wrong is when self appointed censors get to control the agenda. and that's the definition of PC. IMO

Apart from God, who appointed the pope to be in charge of our freedom of speech ?

[EternalOptimist]

Just reading some of the top mans other pronouncements.

freedom of speech forces me to tell you that he is sounding like a bit of a d!ckhead actually

[Flashman]

Whatever happened to turning the other cheek?

Dave Allen. Actual legend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hipigscYXIM

[SueEllen]

This is mad. People should be able to say anything. That's freedom of speech.

So it's OK to spray graffiti on a wall that insults people from Pakistan or is anti-Semitic?

What people forget is with rights comes responsibilities.

So you can have freedom of speech but if particular speech stated in a certain way is known to cause offence in the society you live in, then it's responsible not to say it.

[EternalOptimist]

So it's OK to spray graffiti on a wall that insults people from Pakistan or is anti-Semitic?

What people forget is with rights comes responsibilities.

So you can have freedom of speech but if particular speech stated in a certain way is known to cause offence in the society you live in, then it's responsible not to say it.

Yes. People have the right to be irresponsible.

Most children are irresponsible, that's why we let them babble, but don't put too much weight upon their words.

If you don't like what you are hearing, ignore it. don't make it a crime