This Farage Immigrants with HIV Business This Farage Immigrants with HIV Business
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  1. #1

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    Default This Farage Immigrants with HIV Business

    Regardless of whether or not you support UKIP is there anyone else out there who hasn't thrown their arms in the air and expressed outrage (faux or otherwise) at the sheer callousness of this heartless man's suggestion?

    I mean, sounds like common sense to me and I guess this is borne out by the fact that plenty of countries do screen for HIV. I had a test for Dubai a few years back. Even Australia can show you the door if they feel your treatment is going to cost them too much.

    I didn't realise that a bill was passed in 2012 that granted the right of all comers to anti retro viral treatment. Came about because of pressure from groups like the Terence Hiiggins Trust who say that there is no evidence that free treatment on the NHS will attract infected people from poorer countries where they would otherwise die.

    Hmm... Not so sure about that one. Also not so sure how treating them stops the spread of AIDS - I mean, it's incurable & one can only manage the symptoms.

    I'm sure it's a very complex issue but that Plaid Cymru woman telling Farage he should be ashamed of himself was no more than a bit of shameless grandstanding to a crowd from which she knew she'd receive applause.

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    All he was doing was pointing out a driver in rising NHS costs and arguing that Britain cannot afford to treat both its own and the rest of the world. There was nothing heartless or callous about the way he said it, and it is ridiculous that merely discussing these issues or pointing these things out should garner that appellation. I do agree that the PC lady - and Sturgeon - were doing nothing but scoring cheap points without actually addressing the issue. Same with Natalie Bennett on health tourism, although at least she did try to suggest it was a non-issue rather than just attempting to silence discussion on it, so kudos to her for that. There may be disagreement over the facts behind this but they don't even want to discuss it. I am sure that the SNP will be very cautious with respect to whom they choose to admit to their health system should Scotland go at it alone, because finances will be tight initially, and they will probably see the wisdom of requiring health insurance cover for visitors from abroad. Pragmatism will overrule any ideological leanings in that event.

    I am glad he had the cojones to actually raise the issue, because a lot of these individuals like taking a supposed moral high ground rather than looking at this rationally. Every aspect of government spending and taxation should be opened up to scrutiny.
    Last edited by Zero Liability; 4th April 2015 at 17:42.

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    Mangers/jobsworths are bankrupting the NHS, not treatments.
    “We've always defined ourselves by the ability to overcome the impossible. And we count these moments. These moments when we dare to aim higher, to break barriers, to reach for the stars, to make the unknown known. We count these moments as our proudest achievements. But we lost all that. Or perhaps we've just forgotten that we are still pioneers. And we've barely begun. And that our greatest accomplishments cannot be behind us, because our destiny lies above us.”

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    According to Public Health England, there were 6,000 diagnoses of HIV in the UK in 2013. Where the country of origin is known, 54 per cent of new diagnoses were foreign-born patients.

    Aids charity Avert has estimated that the cost of treating someone with HIV in the UK is around £18,000 per year

    So I make that an additional £58+ million per year

    If there are already 98,400 people living with HIV in the UK, then that would equate to £1771200000 out of the NHS budget for treatment
    How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think

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    Think it was the subject which seemed to create such 'outrage'

    is it ok for non NI paying UK residents coming here to

    Give Birth
    Receive Cancer Treatment
    Dental
    Heart Problems
    Tuberculosis etc
    HIV

    It is never a nice thought turning the needy away but we need to understand the NHS is and should be for UK people.

    SO Farage was absolutely correct and the people who were/are offended maybe they should start a NI version 2 ( separate pot for non uk health residents) and start paying into that to cover these overseas expenses

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    As I am sure Farage knew when he said it, many people will totally agree with him.

    Apart from genuine asylum seekers, the only migrants we should take in are those who will make a very positive contribution to our economy and society that more than outweighs any downsides of increased population. That should mean stringent checks, including for pre-existing health problems.

    It isn't just about money but risk to the UK population, including other Africans. There is a cultural problem among some with using condoms and, as is often the case with minorities, health advice does not always get through to them, meaning they are more likely to spread the disease and are more likely to be diagnosed late so that treatment is less effective and more expensive.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-immigrants-uk
    http://www.avert.org/hiv-aids-uk.htm
    Last edited by xoggoth; 4th April 2015 at 17:47.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooterscot View Post
    Mangers/jobsworths are bankrupting the NHS, not treatments.
    They were also the focus of his arguments.

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    The problem with the example of health tourism he used is that people with infectious diseases will keep silent of that fact due to stigma and pass it on to UK citizens. Remember we have no restrictions on who can come in from the EU.

    If he used the cases of women exploiting maternity services or anything else with reduced stigma he's point would have been accepted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SueEllen View Post
    The problem with the example of health tourism he used is that people with infectious diseases will keep silent of that fact due to stigma and pass it on to UK citizens. Remember we have no restrictions on who can come in from the EU.

    If he used the cases of women exploiting maternity services or anything else with reduced stigma he's point would have been accepted.
    I'm an immigrant myself so I have no idea, but how does it work in the EU? Are treatments for these diseases free in, say, France to a French national? And are they free in, say, France to a German national?

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    Quote Originally Posted by meridian View Post
    I'm an immigrant myself so I have no idea, but how does it work in the EU? Are treatments for these diseases free in, say, France to a French national? And are they free in, say, France to a German national?
    Each EU country has their own health system which differs from country to country.

    Emergency treatment in state run hospitals is normally free for other EU citizens. This is why you are told to get an E101 card for holidays in other EU countries.
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