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Crackdown on personal service companies could raise £400m in tax

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    Originally posted by MrMarkyMark View Post
    There are some IT internships though, I had one working with me the other summer.
    The bank, concerned, then took him on full time, so they do exist.
    It may be that these only exist for potential roles that cannot be offshored, however.

    I don't agree with the throwaway statement completely, either, as most IT can be joined up in such a way, that understanding one thing, can shortcut you to understanding another.
    Perhaps... probably another discussion for another thread.

    Originally posted by rl4engc View Post
    I've not found any of that (lots of competition, ageism etc.) Indeed I get the impression (at least in the roles I've been in) that agents struggle to find suitable candidates. At one gig I got I was informed that one of the two people put forward before me could hardly speak a word of English!

    At another Permie interview they offered me the job, I refused as I didn't like the vibe of the place, and they kept coming back basically trying to change the spec to one that would suit me.

    Also I see loads of "Graduate XYZ" roles, where XYZ is any IT role that they just want to shove a Graddy in and train up, I'm assuming with little success.
    As I said I think the ageism side of things has improved a lot. Perhaps I feel it more keenly as I get older and am not as prepared to work the stupid hours that I did in my 20s and early 30s.

    Again, probably a candidate for a separate thread.

    Comment


      Originally posted by ShandyDrinker View Post
      In a way I think you miss my point. Apprenticeships will not solve the problem. IT is in many ways unique (as opposed to something like Accountancy) in that you are constantly having to learn new technologies to stay current. While with accountancy there will be new legal requirements, the fundamentals will not change massively in a short timeframe. With IT there is often a necessity to throw away large chunks of what you know and learn something new all the time.

      With any of the professions you have to pay, train and qualify thus having a barrier to entry and keeping the numbers low. IT just doesn't have that.

      I find it encouraging that young people are becoming savvy as to what they are studying and working out that the return on investment in a career in IT may not be as good as for other things.
      I'd agree with that on the programming side, but on the BI side, while you get new tools coming along, the principles have remained the same for the last twenty years (at least). On the project management and business/systems analyst side, I wouldn't imagine, barring agile methods, much has changed either.
      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

      Comment


        Originally posted by Waldorf View Post
        Well look at it from the eyes of the average man in the street:

        Being able to claim for travel between home and place of work;

        Being able to claim for lunch;

        Paying a low salary to avoid paying NIC and PAYE;

        Limiting income to avoid paying any personal taxes;

        Paying some of earnings to a spouse in the form of salary and/or dividends;

        Building up cash in the company and eventually withdrawing it paying just 10% tax.

        Is it any wonder HMRC/Government/Media/General Public think using a PSC is taking the P*** ?
        You forgot no paid sick leave, no annual leave allowance, no employer pension and no redundancy money.
        Blood in your poo

        Comment


          You don't throw away stuff you've learned, you apply your underlying skills to new technologies. Rarely does any new language or technology represent a fundamental shift in how one develops code, "there's nothing new under the sun" regardless how avidly the proponents of SuperAmazingFramework 6.0 argue the contrary.
          Originally posted by MaryPoppins
          I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
          Originally posted by vetran
          Urine is quite nourishing

          Comment


            From my MP's "specialists"

            "The constituent had mentioned a recent piece in the Guardian (“Crackdown on personal service companies could raise £400m in tax”, 6 November 2015), but we do not have any details of how the Government will proceed. This is not to say that either of these [T&S and IR35 as well as the Guardian piece] issues are uncontroversial. It is clear that many freelancers have raised concerns, both in representations to the Government and to Members. However, it is too early to say to what extent their concerns may shape any final decisions taken by Ministers."

            Comment


              Originally posted by mudskipper View Post
              From my MP's "specialists"

              "The constituent had mentioned a recent piece in the Guardian (“Crackdown on personal service companies could raise £400m in tax”, 6 November 2015), but we do not have any details of how the Government will proceed. This is not to say that either of these [T&S and IR35 as well as the Guardian piece] issues are uncontroversial. It is clear that many freelancers have raised concerns, both in representations to the Government and to Members. However, it is too early to say to what extent their concerns may shape any final decisions taken by Ministers."
              wow that amounts to total doubts resolved with this statement to a whooping 0.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Tasslehoff View Post
                Carolyn Walsh, a director at CWC Solutions told ContractorUK: “Many organisations that represent or provide services to contractors…have said that they believe they will suffer losses and that contracting 'won't be worth it in future'.

                “But if perceived losses are down solely to paying more tax in future, that's not really a business issue, more a concern over take-home pay and I propose that this is a counter-productive argument.

                “In practice, genuine business-owners concern themselves with gross profit; being overly concerned with net pay could leave some contractors with a question mark hanging over their contractor status if a more business-like approach to the expected changes is not taken.”
                They may concern themselves with gross profit, but the owners and the business's management certainly do take into account net profit, so what is she trying to get at? How many owners of a business put money into it with no regard as to what they can extract from it? A business certainly needs to understand what it offers in return to an investor for putting their money into it.

                Originally posted by ShandyDrinker View Post
                In a way I think you miss my point. Apprenticeships will not solve the problem. IT is in many ways unique (as opposed to something like Accountancy) in that you are constantly having to learn new technologies to stay current. While with accountancy there will be new legal requirements, the fundamentals will not change massively in a short timeframe. With IT there is often a necessity to throw away large chunks of what you know and learn something new all the time.

                With any of the professions you have to pay, train and qualify thus having a barrier to entry and keeping the numbers low. IT just doesn't have that.

                I find it encouraging that young people are becoming savvy as to what they are studying and working out that the return on investment in a career in IT may not be as good as for other things.
                I think the bigger risk for law and accountancy will be technologies that render many of the functions of accountants and lawyers (and paralegals) obsolete by design, especially audit. Outside the Big 4, pay in accountancy doesn't seem to be fantastic and they have the same gripes and moans about outsourcing, from what I've read in Accountancy Age. Plus, as a field, it is replete with apprenticeships, meaning lots of low cost competition. Law suffered from an over-saturation of graduates until recently. The exception being strategic/consultancy/analytical roles in the professions, where you take an active role in providing advice to clients.

                I wonder if it's dependent on how you position a CS degree (and obviously where you graduate from and to what classification), as science degrees are in high demand wherever you look, and that would include CS grads. It probably does merit its own thread, though.
                Last edited by Zero Liability; 10 November 2015, 17:48.

                Comment


                  If this effing ridiculous piece of sht legislation gets enacted then the solution is simple - day rates go up 25% (say). Only works if the whole market does it, so are you in ????

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Zero Liability View Post
                    I think the bigger risk for law and accountancy will be technologies that render many of the functions of accountants and lawyers (and paralegals) obsolete by design, especially audit. Outside the Big 4, pay in accountancy doesn't seem to be fantastic and they have the same gripes and moans about outsourcing, from what I've read in Accountancy Age. Plus, as a field, it is replete with apprenticeships, meaning lots of low cost competition. Law suffered from an over-saturation of graduates until recently. The exception being strategic/consultancy/analytical roles in the professions, where you take an active role in providing advice to clients.

                    I wonder if it's dependent on how you position a CS degree (and obviously where you graduate from and to what classification), as science degrees are in high demand wherever you look, and that would include CS grads. It probably does merit its own thread, though.
                    Good point, certainly re accountancy. I tend to forget that one of the first victims of outsourcing/offshoring was accounting. However, I would imagine that for someone signing off accounts, they would still have to come over to the UK and become qualified under the accountancy bodies in the UK whereas your average IT bod can come to the UK and work straight away.

                    Agreed re the what/where/grade of the CS degree. Science degrees do seem to open a lot of doors.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by seeourbee View Post
                      If this effing ridiculous piece of sht legislation gets enacted then the solution is simple - day rates go up 25% (say). Only works if the whole market does it, so are you in ????
                      Great in theory... until clients decide not to play ball, claim skills shortage etc. Alternatively as people run down their war chests, they'll be more open to working for lower rates. At that point it's a case of who can hold out longest.

                      Comment

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