Tory MP says non-wealthy are "low-achievers"

[vetran]

when I bought a flat I did the maths and rent was about the same as mortgage, with mortgage the money would benefit you long term its hardly a difficult calculation. I'll give MM his due its more difficult now.

Strange a number of people I know who got divorced, one even as many times as Brillo (she was completely broke by then) are pretty wealthy now from their own efforts.

There is a spark that makes people wealthy, its partially inherited and partially learned and of course if you have money & know people who have money its easier to make money.

[psychocandy]

hmm but is it.

I always seem to struggle with this sort of thing.

Are they 'poor' because they are lazy and feckless

Or has the upbringing they have had made them lose and form of drive or ambition and so they are poor, lazy and feckless.

Is the only way to get out of this to recognise that you may not ever be rich but if you instil the right attitude in your kids they could be?

So almost this generation gets nowt - but your grandkids will?

Got a big thing about this have I. Don't blame your background/education/where you live etc on not achieving what you want to do.

Even in crap britain anyone with a modest amount of intelligence can do what they want IF they make an effort.

Me - I was brought up by a single parent (my Dad which was rare in the 70s), lived on complete tulipehole council estate, in a tulipehole welsh valley town. Went to a crap school.

Dad worked in a factory for 40 years, grandfather worked down the mine (doing so eventually killed him).

BUT the old fella wanted better for me so provided encouragement. So off I went to college etc on a full grant (remember those?) and the rest is history.....

So it really does my chunk when you TV programmes where you get people from the valleys moaning they can't get jobs, live in a dead end place etc. GET ON THE BUS.

My take. If your skint and working a dead end job for minimum wage then don't moan do something about it. Get off your arse and better yourself.

I've got relatives who think its funny to joke about how much money they think I earn. Then next sentence will be how early I get up each day to get to client site, how much responsibilty I have etc, how many hours I work. I usually get "you must be mad I wouldn't do that". THERE WE ARE THEN THATS THE DIFFERENCE.

[BrilloPad]

But then you have to ask what sort of laziness causes someone not to buy houses(s) when they were cheap.

I am not sure houses have ever been cheap. They have always been expensive - but have got a lot more expensive over the last 20 years.

The question now is will they keep getting more expensive?

[SpontaneousOrder]

and immoral tax avoidance schemes that need to be closed.

It would be useful if you could explain the standard by which you judge whether tax avoidance scheme is immoral or not?

I.e. wherein the moral principle, as opposed to personal preference, lies.

[sasguru]

I am not sure houses have ever been cheap. They have always been expensive - but have got a lot more expensive over the last 20 years.

The question now is will they keep getting more expensive?

You're right, although they were probably more affordable.
But still on my 10K starting salary at the time, I struggled to buy a flat in London ...

[psychocandy]

You're right, although they were probably more affordable.
But still on my 10K starting salary at the time, I struggled to buy a flat in London ...

First salary after graduation. 12K. Cost of first house 35K. Wales :-)

[sasguru]

Then next sentence will be how early I get up each day to get to client site, how much responsibilty I have etc, how many hours I work. I usually get "you must be mad I wouldn't do that". THERE WE ARE THEN THATS THE DIFFERENCE.

Apart from a couple of people I know whose parents are millionaires (and believe me I wouldn't be them, they have their own problems related to too much money), I and everyone else I know who's achieved a modicum of success has worked hard/is working hard and had to make some sacrifices to get there.

There are too many people in this country who can't/won't get up early to go to work or make any sort of effort e.g. getting an education - because if you play the system, you can live off the state.
Got no sympathy for them whatsoever.

[vetran]

It would be useful if you could explain the standard by which you judge whether tax avoidance scheme is immoral or not?

I.e. wherein the moral principle, as opposed to personal preference, lies.

Well I would definitely suspect any mechanism such as EBTs where there sole purpose is to avoid tax apart from Government created ones such as ISAs.

I would also suspect any that intentionally moved money away from reality such as expensive coffee or licensing.

However as you probably know morality is a personal thing Some religions allow and even encourage men to sleep with many women (as wives) some see that as a mortal sin.

I would suggest that where a tax avoidance scheme is not available to the majority and has no overall UK society benefit then it needs attention.

[Churchill]

It would be useful if you could explain the standard by which you judge whether tax avoidance scheme is immoral or not?

I.e. wherein the moral principle, as opposed to personal preference, lies.

It's immoral when HMRC et al can't prove that it's illegal.

Hth.

Spod.

[vetran]

Apart from a couple of people I know whose parents are millionaires (and believe me I wouldn't be them, they have their own problems related to too much money), I and everyone else I know who's achieved a modicum of success has worked hard/is working hard and had to make some sacrifices to get there.

There are too many people in this country who can't/won't get up early to go to work or make any sort of effort e.g. getting an education - because if you play the system, you can live off the state.
Got no sympathy for them whatsoever.

plenty that get up early and take responsibility what they don't do is position themselves to go to the next level or have the self worth to drag themselves up. They aren't lazy they are frustrated.