Trump's Muslim Ban

[d000hg]

Their immigration control is pretty effective and efficient.

If by efficient you mean slow and painful to get through then sure.

It shouldn't be shocking, as it's part of his campaign promises - just like all the others he's been implementing.

The fact he promised to do it doesn't make it somehow better. "But I told her I was going to rape her. I'm a man of my word"

That aside, it can hardly be considered a Muslim ban when over 80% of the world's muslims are not affected.

He is on record as saying he wanted Muslims banned from entering the US. And now he's implemented a ban on people from strongly Islamic nations entering the US. Come on, you're seriously going to play Trump apologist on this issue? Even if the premise of it is good, the implementation is crassly incompetent, to the extent most other countries don't seem to know who is allowed in, people leaving the US briefly are prevented from returning even though they had a right to be there, etc.

It's farcical.

[Bee]

It shouldn't be shocking, as it's part of his campaign promises - just like all the others he's been implementing. And the Hitler thing is just asinine.

That aside, it can hardly be considered a Muslim ban when over 80% of the world's muslims are not affected.

The list is Obama's list. It is a list of countries his administration decided were of 'particular concern' with regards to security & ISIS infiltration. The list originally excluded dual nationality persons (of those countries) from the visa waiver program.

Obama also used that list, before it was expanded in 2016, to prevent people from arriving from Iraq for a period of 6 months.



If it's a muslim ban, then you should really be throwing some accusations at Obama.

That is completely differents because Obama created a list of countries with high risk of ISIS infiltration, not a ban on all the citizens.

Countries invaded and parts controlled by ISIS, are likely to be more dangerous and needs more careful on their control, furthermore, they are citizens from European countries that belong to ISIS.

[SpontaneousOrder]

The fact he promised to do it doesn't make it somehow better. "But I told her I was going to rape her. I'm a man of my word"

I don't think it's wrong. In fact I think it doesn't go far enough. But the point I was getting at is that people seem genuinely shocked as in surprised.

He is on record as saying he wanted Muslims banned from entering the US. And now he's implemented a ban on people from strongly Islamic nations entering the US. Come on, you're seriously going to play Trump apologist on this issue?

He said no muslims. Then later he clarified and said no people from dangerous places who we can't vet properly. Then he implements it based on a list that Obama created and used.

*If* you want to focus on the first and least specific thing he said on the topic, which has been spoken about a lot for a long time since, AND completely ignore the fact that he didn't create the list - the executive order makes no mention of those countries or any religions - AND call it a muslim ban because Obama picked a load of muslim majority countries AND do the mental gymnastics required to reconcile the fact that if it were a muslim ban then the choice of countries was among the most useless possible...

... then it's clear that the truth of the matter is not a priority for you. But I'm sure that if you look it up you'll think less and less of it as a muslim ban.

Even if the premise of it is good, the implementation is crassly incompetent, to the extent most other countries don't seem to know who is allowed in, people leaving the US briefly are prevented from returning even though they had a right to be there, etc.

It's farcical.

This part is open to debate, and I'm happy for that to be so (although i'm not really interested in how well it was implemented).

The part I objected to was the Hitler hysteria which is responsible for so much violence now, and potentially much more in future.

If you really though he was Hitler (and a lot of people will believe silly things like that, despite around 120 million Americans not seeing it at all), would you do something terrible to save the world from him? All of this fake news driven hysteria is dangerous.

[darmstadt]

Obama also used that list, before it was expanded in 2016, to prevent people from arriving from Iraq for a period of 6 months.

That is actually an 'Alternative Fact', the Obama administration actually did nothing of the sort and the proof is out there if you can be bothered to check it out. I'll give you a started for 10:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.27b3fc8a3749
Sorry, Mr. President: The Obama Administration Did Nothing Similar to Your Immigration Ban | Foreign Policy

[SpontaneousOrder]

That is actually an 'Alternative Fact', the Obama administration actually did nothing of the sort and the proof is out there if you can be bothered to check it out. I'll give you a started for 10:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.27b3fc8a3749
Sorry, Mr. President: The Obama Administration Did Nothing Similar to Your Immigration Ban | Foreign Policy

What about it is an 'alternative fact' ? That Obama created the list of states of particular concern, with regards to security aorund persons arriving from those states, used to restrict visas as per this FAQ?

https://www.niacaction.org/update-fr...ctions-may-12/

Or the part about preventing Iraqi immigration?

[pjclarke]

[darmstadt]

Still...

2/3 of Donald Trump's wives have been immigrants
Proving once again that America needs immigrants
To do the jobs most Americans don't want to do

[darmstadt]

What about it is an 'alternative fact' ? That Obama created the list of states of particular concern, with regards to security aorund persons arriving from those states, used to restrict visas as per this FAQ?

https://www.niacaction.org/update-fr...ctions-may-12/

Or the part about preventing Iraqi immigration?

Did you read the link?

I am an American citizen or green card holder who is planning to visit Iran. Does this affect my ability to return to the United States?

No. The law does not bar U.S. citizens or green card holders from re-entering the United States after travel to Iran. It solely affects travel between the 38 countries participating in the VWP and the United States. Iran is not eligible for the VWP.

Will the restrictions affect Iranian citizens in possession of or seeking U.S. visas, or Americans seeking to travel to Iran?

The restrictions do not affect Iranian citizens in possession of or seeking a U.S. visa. Iran is not eligible for the VWP, so Iranian citizens who are not dual nationals of countries eligible for the VWP are not affected by this law.

Not as offensive as Trump's little EO is it? 5 other US presidents have actually done exactly the same....

[DaveB]

What about it is an 'alternative fact' ? That Obama created the list of states of particular concern, with regards to security aorund persons arriving from those states, used to restrict visas as per this FAQ?

https://www.niacaction.org/update-fr...ctions-may-12/

Or the part about preventing Iraqi immigration?

Not quite, the list of contries of concern was created, and travellers from those countries were no longer allowed to enter on Visa Waivers. They had to go through the formal Visa process. There was never a blanket ban on entry from those countries and it was still perfectly possible to get a visa as a national of one of those countries.

[SpontaneousOrder]

That is completely differents because Obama created a list of countries with high risk of ISIS infiltration, not a ban on all the citizens.

So you're saying that the list used to exclude individuals from the visa waiver program wasn't predicated on the majority religion of it's members' population? But was predicated on it's likelihood to be a hotbed of terrorist infiltration?