Bloomin hell that's higher than I thought

[sal]

with an average annual Syrian wage of US$ 3,662 it might take a while to find the $10k they need.

Afghanistan average yearly wage - US$ 274 - well.

Irag might have a chance US$ 15,258.


Apparently they promise the future earnings of the migrant to pay off the debt or the sister ends up in a Brothel.

sick yes, green no.

Where did you get these figures from? Office of national statistics?

Anyway it shouldn't matter if the refugees are wealthy enough or not to pay the traffickers - Their official reason (in most cases) for seeking entry in the EU is that they are fleeing from war zone or ethnic cleansing. Their financial status is irrelevant.

Neither Human trafficking being illegal as it is nor the desire of people to escape death will change much in the event some legislation makes their entry in the EU even more illegal...

[NotAllThere]

You really are a colossal prat. Nobody labelled your wife's family criminals. Get a grip.

Just following the implications of Vetran's brainfart.

Sorry I actually thought some of them (refugees) were vaguely honest. Now I want them here even less.

You see - he's saying that he's now got an additional reason to not want refugees in the UK - because they've used illegal means and criminal gangs to get here, so that makes them dishonest.

So being shocked how endemic it is because I'm a virtual signaller.

That is the natural implication that involvement with criminality in order to escape war zones is "dishonest". Now - do I really think you're virtue signalling and/or libelling my family? No, of course not. I think you just express yourself very badly, and don't really think things through.

[SueEllen]

Independently wealthy? Not at all. The whole family scrimp and save to get someone smuggled in so that they can work and send money home. You're very green for a vetran....

They also get loans from loan sharks.

[vetran]

Just following the implications of Vetran's brainfart.You see - he's saying that he's now got an additional reason to not want refugees in the UK - because they've used illegal means and criminal gangs to get here, so that makes them dishonest.

That is the natural implication that involvement with criminality in order to escape war zones is "dishonest". Now - do I really think you're virtue signalling and/or libelling my family? No, of course not. I think you just express yourself very badly, and don't really think things through.

Oh I'll use the quality papers to explain myself

Six out of 10 migrants to Europe come for 'economic reasons' and are not refugees, EU Vice President Frans Timmermans says | The Independent

More than half of all migrants to Europe are motivated by “economic reasons” and are not fleeing war or persecution, the vice-president of the European Commission has said.

Dutch politician Frans Timmermans said the majority of migrants to Europe are from North African countries such as Morocco or Tunisia, where there is no conflict.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...ist-explains-4

The figure for those entering Italy, who are a far more diverse bunch, is 46%. Many Nigerians, Bangladeshis and Gambians, among others, fail to obtain protection after crossing the Mediterranean

EU officials find that most of the 'refugees' are not refugees. What a mess | Coffee House

EU migrant crisis: Sweden may reject 80,000 asylum claims - BBC News

even the granuaid disagrees with you

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...refugees-syria

So the figures from EU sources disagree with you. Many are not fleeing war but are recognised as economic migrants.

So yes I think that those arriving should be sent back to safe areas and dealt with there to discourage others. Sorry if you disagree and want to fund crime or encourage deaths on the journey.

do you understand now?

[d000hg]

I naively assumed that as every lefty in the world was saying save the migrants the people they were supporting wouldn't be involved with organised crime.

Now every lefty I hear spouting off will translate to "I'm a feckwit and I want to support organised crime".

Since entering the EU illegally is illegal, the fact they're using an illegal method to do so is neither surprising nor makes them part of some organised crime ring. It's more analogous to a starving man stealing a loaf of bread - they're desperate enough that breaking the law hardly seems a major consideration. You don't need to be a lefty to understand that.

[sal]

Oh I'll use the quality papers to explain myself

Six out of 10 migrants to Europe come for 'economic reasons' and are not refugees, EU Vice President Frans Timmermans says | The Independent




http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...ist-explains-4



EU officials find that most of the 'refugees' are not refugees. What a mess | Coffee House

EU migrant crisis: Sweden may reject 80,000 asylum claims - BBC News

even the granuaid disagrees with you

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...refugees-syria

So the figures from EU sources disagree with you. Many are not fleeing war but are recognised as economic migrants.

So yes I think that those arriving should be sent back to safe areas and dealt with there to discourage others. Sorry if you disagree and want to fund crime or encourage deaths on the journey.

do you understand now?

No one is disputing the fact that the majority of the migrants are economic migrants, trying to disguise themselves are refugees from conflicts. It's already illegal for them to enter the EU without appropriate papers, hence they are using illegal means of entry - traffickers.

What measures do you propose to deter them in the future and reduce the use of illegal traffickers? Torpedoing their dinghies in the mediterranean before they can reach the shores? laying mine fields?

[NotAllThere]

...Six out of 10 migrants to Europe come for 'economic reasons' and are not refugees, EU Vice President Frans Timmermans says | The Independent...?

You weren't talking about only economic migrants, you were simply saying migrants - that includes the 40% who are not economic. In fact, this is the first time in this thread you've made the distinction.

I am entirely in agreement with sending back economic migrants and discouraging them from making the journey in the first place, as much as possible. I made it clear in this thread from an early stage that I was talking about those seeking asylum from persecution (as opposed to bogus asylum seekers) and refugees.

I don't think you're being deliberately disingenuous... at least I hope you're not, and it's just you being a bit hard-of-thinking.

Instead of pontificating in the comfort of your armchair, why not spend some time with some of your local migrant population and talk to them? It shouldn't change your opinion of sending back economic migrants (it hasn't mine!), but it might engender a little understanding and compassion.

[darmstadt]

I suspect many contractors are also economic migrants, I mean you could earn 120 a day near home or 500 in London which explains what there are so many in London...

[vetran]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...migrant-crisis

Australia’s immigration debate began at a similar point to the current crisis facing Europe. Five years ago, boats were coming, mostly from Indonesia – a transit country to where asylum seekers travelled from as far away as Iraq or Afghanistan in an attempt to enter Australia – and more were coming than had ever come before.

Harrowing deaths at sea were also growing more frequent, as they are now growing in the Mediterranean, although the numbers of arrivals to Australia have never reached the levels attempting to come to Europe. Immigration detention centres inside Australia were full, and riots and serious self-harm incidents had taken place.

He added: “The Australian policy at no point has taken account of the need for protection of people who are attempting to come to Australia by boat. That’s never been a serious part of the discussion from politicians in Australia.”

But the policy did largely stem the flow of asylum-seeker vessels to Australia. Since the government came to power, only 16 boats have made the journey to Australia. Only one has been successful. No deaths have been reported

I don't want to be a brutal as Australia but we need to do something to stem the flow.

Whilst I have sympathy for the ~40% of genuine refugees we need to stop the flow & fix it for everyone. I think it is the humanitarian option.

[vetran]

I suspect many contractors are also economic migrants, I mean you could earn 120 a day near home or 500 in London which explains what there are so many in London...

there is a bit of difference between moving near London totally legally and coming across the world without a passport.