Fail Britannia

[VectraMan]

I would rather have a poorer country than one that was part of the great EU experiment.

And that really is the nub of the whole debate. Brexit is about putting political ideology above the interests of the people, and as a more sensible moderate type I'd say that I disagree and think having a richer country is actually a good thing.

But I think it's fair to say that whilst some Brexiteers do believe that, and some have genuine reasons for thinking the alternative is better, the vast majority were simply duped and delusions of empire and going on about "making Britain great again" are part of that.

[northernladyuk]

And that really is the nub of the whole debate. Brexit is about putting political ideology above the interests of the people, and as a more sensible moderate type I'd say that I disagree and think having a richer country is actually a good thing.

But I think it's fair to say that whilst some Brexiteers do believe that, and some have genuine reasons for thinking the alternative is better, the vast majority were simply duped and delusions of empire and going on about "making Britain great again" are part of that.

Admin's penniless anyway and just wants to drag everyone down to his level.

[Mordac]

Bloody Admin's pet.

Flattery will get you everywhere.

[Mordac]

Admin's penniless anyway and just wants to drag everyone down to his level.

So you're giving him a generous discount are you?

[northernladyuk]

So you're giving him a generous discount are you?

The old man had to show him where to shove his loose change.

[jamesbrown]

But I think it's fair to say that whilst some Brexiteers do believe that, and some have genuine reasons for thinking the alternative is better, the vast majority were simply duped and delusions of empire and going on about "making Britain great again" are part of that.

It's fair to say that, while some Bremainers had genuine reasons for thinking that the EU could change, the vast majority were simply duped into believing that the UK would immediately suffer a severe shock scenario and their house prices (times two or three) would decline by an unacceptable amount, and self-interest and a lack of critical thinking are part of that.

[northernladyuk]

It's fair to say that, while some Bremainers had genuine reasons for thinking that the EU could change, the vast majority were simply duped into believing that the UK would immediately suffer a severe shock scenario and their house prices (times two or three) would decline by an unacceptable amount, and self-interest and a lack of critical thinking are part of that.

I don't much care for the EU or the EU leadership. I just trust the UK political class even less. I have to say that the complete nightmare of the Article 50 negotiations and trade deals, with the real risk of being the only major developed country relying solely on WTO rules did pass me by before the referendum.

[administrator]

And that really is the nub of the whole debate. Brexit is about putting political ideology above the interests of the people, and as a more sensible moderate type I'd say that I disagree and think having a richer country is actually a good thing.

But I think it's fair to say that whilst some Brexiteers do believe that, and some have genuine reasons for thinking the alternative is better, the vast majority were simply duped and delusions of empire and going on about "making Britain great again" are part of that.

But I could say the same about the Remainers - I think most have been duped into thinking that anything other than the Blairite way of voting to remain as part of the EU is nothing short of idiocy and that you are siding with old people and racists. I think there is smoke and mirrors on both sides of the argument and whichever side won there were going to be points in time where "sides" could take shots at each other and say how well / badly they / the other side did by the outcome of various circumstances.

We can debate all day long (and many on the forum here seem to) about what the current news paper headlines are saying (most of it sensationalist click-bait claptrap), about what might happen in this service sector or that industry, about what the EU might do to punish us, how we might be better / worse off for the outcome of the vote. Even economists with more understanding of these things than sas and NLYUK (hard to believe, I know) said they could not predict the outcome. And we still can't predict the outcome.

My opinion is that while I can see short-term pain for the UK I think that the leave vote will mean our Government will have to work harder for us. I have seen people laugh on here about UK manufacturing and tech being shafted due to lack of talent etc. But if we take the right steps, starting with eduction and a plan of where we want the country to be, then I think we can succeed. I am more hopeful for the future of the UK for my kids being out of the EU than being pulled into an EU superstate with no choice about how things are run or what decisions are made. It may take a few decades to get right but I have hope. I am probably naive and a cretin, but I am hopeful cretin

[northernladyuk]

But I could say the same about the Remainers - I think most have been duped into thinking that anything other than the Blairite way of voting to remain as part of the EU is nothing short of idiocy and that you are siding with old people and racists.

So how do you think most old people and racists voted?

[sasguru]

Not all others, thankfully (hopefully). I am very confident that harking back to those terrible times isn't what those who voted for Brexit voted for.

To dig up the atrocities of our forebears as a reason why it was a bad idea to leave Europe is a bit of tulipty perspective. The article was probably penned by Tony Bliar and fed to someone willing to take a handout.

If people want to focus on the past as a means to denigrate the UK, to look at the age of Empire as being a stick to beat us with, then I think we should do the same..

I don't think he was saying that. It seems to me he was pointing out the fact that, because of that history, other countries may not be as keen on "Empire 2" as the UKIP fantasy of replacing EU trade with Commonwealth trade has come to be called.
Even with the best will in the world on both sides, trade with Australia, Canada etc is neglible and not likely to increase by much.
That is a cold hard fact.