Question to the Corbyn supporters here

[motoukenin]

[QUOTE=VectraMan;2408340]Vote Leave promised the £350m a week 11 times over, but that didn't stop people voting for it. Can't argue with success.


The wheels of that bus fell off from the day it was said, we contribute 9 Billion to EU budget, divide that by 52 and you get about 175 million a week, its amazing how politicians can just put this cr@p out there knowing how many Numpties will just suck it up.

[d000hg]

If JC is truly what core labour voters want then I'm sorry to say it shows how fffin stupid they are.

Well given that they're poorly educated working class ex-miners and factory workers, what do you expect. 'Stupid' is rather patronising though IMO. These are union-minded folk who are still raw from past events and rightly or wrongly blame Thatcher/Tories for the total collapse of their communities. Previously prosperous villages and small towns now suffering generational unemployment and poverty, the young are indoctrinated by the old that the problems are all down to Thatcher.

Also, JC is a strong union-minded old-school Labour type. Unions exist for the benefit of their members so said members are only acting out of perceived self-interest when they like JC. Which is exactly what we do when it comes to discussions on tax and so on. I don't know you can blame them for supporting the guy who supports the unions - their position might be ignorant but it's certainly understandable.

[WordIsBond]

Unions exist for the benefit of their members so said members are only acting out of perceived self-interest when they like JC. Which is exactly what we do when it comes to discussions on tax and so on.

Well, it's exactly what some do.

Some people actually think about what is best for the country and the economy as a whole. I have kids and grandkids, I'm not interested in trashing the place just so I get a few more quid take home pay.

I'd be fine personally even if Labour got in, unless they decide to confiscate pensions or other savings. My concern isn't about that, but about what they'd do to the country. As bad as Blair/Brown were, this is not their Labour party anymore.

[billybiro]

Hmmmmm, well the jury is out on that one currently, especially as it doesn't look to be going well in the public sector.

A lot have had their rates raised in the public sector to cover it (extra tax), do you think that will wear in the public sector?

I for one, don't think so

Do you honestly believe the changes will be repealed?

It wouldn't be the first time that some changes are brought in, don't go over so well (or so smoothly) but are persevered with due to the increase in revenue that they bring. Hell, that's why HMRC is the way it currently is (i.e. an over-complicated mess). I don't believe anyone truly fully understands exactly how all forms of taxation work, even the people working at HMRC.

It wasn't exactly plain sailing when IR35 itself was initially introduced, yet here we are. We still have it, and it's going nowhere.

[radish2008]

Hmmmmm, well the jury is out on that one currently, especially as it doesn't look to be going well in the public sector.

A lot have had their rates raised in the public sector to cover it (extra tax), do you think that will wear in the public sector?

I for one, don't think so

Also the CT cuts don't apply to the likes of us. Unless your contract is worth over £1m a year. Even NLUK won't be puling that in.

[MrMarkyMark]

Do you honestly believe the changes will be repealed?

It wouldn't be the first time that some changes are brought in, don't go over so well (or so smoothly) but are persevered with due to the increase in revenue that they bring. Hell, that's why HMRC is the way it currently is (i.e. an over-complicated mess). I don't believe anyone truly fully understands exactly how all forms of taxation work, even the people working at HMRC.

It wasn't exactly plain sailing when IR35 itself was initially introduced, yet here we are. We still have it, and it's going nowhere.

No, I certainly don't think they will be repealed.

I just don't think they will be extended to the private sector.

Actually I have been a bit of a muppet, I meant to say....

Hmmmmm, well the jury is out on that one currently, especially as it doesn't look to be going well in the public sector.

A lot have had their rates raised in the public sector to cover it (extra tax), do you think that will wear in the private sector?

[billybiro]

No, I certainly don't think they will be repealed.

I just don't think they will be extended to the private sector.

Why not? I firmly believe that the changes starting in the public sector are a shoe-in for the "field to be levelled" and the same changes rolled out to the private sector in subsequent years. Very unlikely that HMRC/Govt. will allow the public and private sectors to run for too long with different sets of IR35 rules. This current govt. in particular has been itching to dismantle small (primarily one-man-band) PSC's for quite some time, considering us as little better than "disguised employees".

I understand when you ask whether the private sector will wear such IR35 changes forced upon them, but consider this. If HMRC/Govt. do force the changes through to the private sector, what exactly can the private sector do about it? You're right that they won't wear a huge upsurge in rates so either contractor rates will be forced ever downwards - making contracting less appealing vs employment, or companies will simply cease to use (independent) contractors - instead opting for employees or only using "employed" contractors working for the big consultancies.

Either way, HMRC/Govt. gets what it wants, right? Forcing us all back into employment where our tax burden is not only higher but much easier to enforce.

[SueEllen]

Why not? I firmly believe that the changes starting in the public sector are a shoe-in for the "field to be levelled" and the same changes rolled out to the private sector in subsequent years. Very unlikely that HMRC/Govt. will allow the public and private sectors to run for too long with different sets of IR35 rules. This current govt. in particular has been itching to dismantle small (primarily one-man-band) PSC's for quite some time, considering us as little better than "disguised employees".

I understand when you ask whether the private sector will wear such IR35 changes forced upon them, but consider this. If HMRC/Govt. do force the changes through to the private sector, what exactly can the private sector do about it? You're right that they won't wear a huge upsurge in rates so either contractor rates will be forced ever downwards - making contracting less appealing vs employment, or companies will simply cease to use (independent) contractors - instead opting for employees or only using "employed" contractors working for the big consultancies.

Either way, HMRC/Govt. gets what it wants, right? Forcing us all back into employment where our tax burden is not only higher but much easier to enforce.

The private sector will just rewrite their contracts to be outside.

Anyway Corbyn wants Zero hours contracts banned so that will be the next Tory policy.

[xoggoth]

Like Ken Livingstone but without the wit

I'm hardly a lefty but I always rather liked Livingstone. Some of his ideas, the fixed fares in London thing, would have been worth a try but blocked by ghastly Thatcher. He sure wasn't as much an unrealistic twit as Corbyn.

PS Except for Livingstone's horrible attitude to nice little pigeons obviously.