What would abolishing tution fees REALLY cost? What would abolishing tution fees REALLY cost? - Page 2
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  1. #11

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    No not means testing and weighted towards the areas the government deems the economy needs or will need. Basically what Xoggoth said in his initial post. The best and brightest in the subject we need.

    Although i can see a case being made for a minimum number being reserved for things like Arts where we don't think we need the skills but still want to catch the next Leonardo (Da Vinci, not De Capprio).

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    Although i can see a case being made for a minimum number being reserved for things like Arts
    I agree with that, life is not just about earning money, we need things that make life enjoyable too. Artists, chefs, sportsman and so on can make a big contribution both in a financial and non financial way.

    We still need to focus on the more talented, although that could be difficult, given that what we appreciate as good music, art etc. is pretty subjective and changes with fashion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xoggoth View Post
    I agree with that, life is not just about earning money, we need things that make life enjoyable too. Artists, chefs, sportsman and so on can also make a big contribution financially. Creative arts, music, films, tourism are big earning sectors for Britain.

    We still need to focus on the more talented, although admittedly that could be difficult, given that what we, and the world, sees as good music, art etc. is pretty subjective and changes with fashion and the times.
    Problem is art and other creative subjects are so subjective that people who do art in the way the universities like e.g. from the same background, will get places.

    Anyway the reason to means test is because the Duke of Westminster will have no problems putting his children through uni but someone in care doesn't have that same back up. And it's more cost effective for us as a society to give that care kid a lift so they can get a decent job then his children.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooterscot View Post
    FTFY.

    STEM subjects should be funded as the economy needs them the most. Here in Germany higher education remains free to all. However those not choosing higher education should... what do you call an ausbildung in English? Ich wergessen.. whereby you learn on job but get a recognised qualification at the end.
    Die Lehre? Apprenticeship. I think Ausbildung is a more general word for training; my dictionary suggests Berufsausbuilding as another word for Lehre.

    It did always seem strange to me that having spent 3 years on a computing degree I was essentially a trainee in my first job. On the job training seems like it would work much better and surely would benefit the wider economy too. One problem then is finding enough employers willing to hire the students, and the other is it'll never fly in Britain as people will see it as a short term threat to their jobs instead of looking at the big picture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VectraMan View Post
    Die Lehre? Apprenticeship. I think Ausbildung is a more general word for training; my dictionary suggests Berufsausbuilding as another word for Lehre.

    It did always seem strange to me that having spent 3 years on a computing degree I was essentially a trainee in my first job. On the job training seems like it would work much better and surely would benefit the wider economy too. One problem then is finding enough employers willing to hire the students, and the other is it'll never fly in Britain as people will see it as a short term threat to their jobs instead of looking at the big picture.
    Now some companies and some government departments do Computing apprenticeships. I think a few of them actually include studying for a degree while working.

    However getting into them is really hard.
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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeMeMe1966 View Post
    No not means testing and weighted towards the areas the government deems the economy needs or will need. Basically what Xoggoth said in his initial post. The best and brightest in the subject we need.

    Although i can see a case being made for a minimum number being reserved for things like Arts where we don't think we need the skills but still want to catch the next Leonardo (Da Vinci, not De Capprio).
    Draw Me Like One of Your French Girls
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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by SueEllen View Post
    Now some companies and some government departments do Computing apprenticeships. I think a few of them actually include studying for a degree while working.

    However getting into them is really hard.
    as they should be.

    It used to be Apprentice served meant 5 years of training and working your way up. Not 3 weeks washing up.

    We used to train the degree boys where their elbow was.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

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  8. #18

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    However getting into them is really hard
    That can be a problem in several areas. Can't be a*sed to find the link but read a while back how hard it can be for would be doctors and nurses to get a place. If we focused resources more on the areas we need it might help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xoggoth View Post
    I agree with that, life is not just about earning money, we need things that make life enjoyable too. Artists, chefs, sportsman and so on can make a big contribution both in a financial and non financial way.

    We still need to focus on the more talented, although that could be difficult, given that what we appreciate as good music, art etc. is pretty subjective and changes with fashion.
    The great artists rarely went to school many were commissioned. There is some suggestion great art needs great sacrifice.

    DA VINCI

    Leonardo never attended public school. He was raised by his single father. When Leonardo was fifteen he joined the studio af Andrea del Verrocchio in Florence.
    http://www.biography.com/people/vinc...n-gogh-9515695

    At age 15, van Gogh's family was struggling financially, and he was forced to leave school and go to work. He got a job at his Uncle Cornelis' art dealership, Goupil & Cie.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by xoggoth View Post
    That can be a problem in several areas. Can't be a*sed to find the link but read a while back how hard it can be for would be doctors and nurses to get a place. If we focused resources more on the areas we need it might help.
    Indeed, also if we stopped raiding other countries for pre trained staff maybe more companies would train staff & try to retain them?
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

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